PY number

[AndCur]

Folks would anybody know what the PY number should be for a Sadler 29 fin keel
with a folding prop. The reason i ask is that here is one racing in our club with a PY number of 1104 which seems far to high

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[Aeolus_IV]

Looking <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rya.org.uk/?contentID=2226166>here</A> will give some data on the subject. Try emailing the RYA direct - they will express an opinion if there is no firm data. From the RYA I can see that the Sadler 25 has a PY of 1060 or 1055, a Sadler 32 of 1025. The Sadler 29 is in the "need more returns" list.

I would guess that somewhere in the middle would make sense /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

Regards, Jeff.

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[Strathglass]

Yes you are correct.
Not currently listed by RYA , Just in 'returns required'.


From the RYA 2000 Portsmouth numbers I have the following info.

Sad 25 IBF 2K 1117
Sad 26 IBF F 1054
Sad 29 IB2 2K 1094
Sad 32 IB2 2k 1045
Sad 32 IB2 F 1025

From those figures the PY is shown as 1094 for a twin keel and I would expect it to come down to 1074 for a fin keel.

Then there would be an additional reduction for the folding prop - how much I don't know.

A high handicap can make winning easier.

If you PM me I can email you with a scan of the relevent pages.

Cheers

Iain

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[Cantata]

I occasionally club-race our S29 BK and we are also allocated 1094. Seems to work out quite well I think. A fin keel version ought to be substantially lower, say around 1040-1050, I'd have thought.

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[AndCur]

Guys

Thanks for confriming my thoughts about the PY number. Guess that will be another fun sailers meeting at the start of next season.

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[ex-Gladys]

There is a small software house that does a handicap racing app and does calculated handicaps that relate back to PY. www.byronsoftware.org.uk. They show a S29 2k as 1094. Loads of data and they will calc your rating for you for free. May give you good ammo.

<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras

Anderson 26 "Amber"

 

[Birdseye]

dont forget that the PY numbers can be adjusted locally to reflect performance anyway.

gather he beat you?

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[Cactus]

Explain PY numbers in 1 sentence..go!


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[Cantata]

A sailboat-racing handicap system, particularly used in dinghy racing, where each boat's elapsed time for the race is divided by its handicap number, and multiplied by 1000, to produce a corrected time that is used to decide the finishing order.

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[PeteMcK]

Contessa 28

In the Clyde Yacht Clubs Association system (http://homepages.rya-online.net/cyca/CLASSES.HTM) , the Contessa 28 and Sadler 29, each fin keel and folding prop, are both given 19.25 minutes/hour. Having seen how the Sadler races, I'd say 19.25 is pretty much ok. The GK 24 (F.R.) is on 19.50 min/hr, which is slightly generous, I think.
From the RYA's PY list, the Co 28 is 1027, while the GK is 1014 so, compared with CYCA, your figure of 1104 for the Sadler 29 seems very soft unless there's something very special about your local conditions (or ours!).

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[Aeolus_IV]

A system of handicapping sailors based on thier success within the local fleet ensuring that everyone should have a equal chance of winning a race on handicap.

It bears no resemblance to actually how fast/slow a boat is, unless there is a whole raft of you with the same boat - how likely is that?

Jeff.

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[Cactus]

It's very odd. Just noticed that of the other two yachts (exact same model as our own) in our club all have different PY numbers, even the one with the folding prop is much higher than ours, meaning we'd have to beat him by 20 odd minutes over 2 or 3 hours to win!

Where do these numbers actually come from.. they seem to be picked out of the air?


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[AndCur]

Your club must be like mine. The thing is all they are doing is putting people of racing but at the same time they ask why yachts are not the start line. A rolling handicap system is fine as everyone knows where they stand. But when they make up a PY which gives a boat a unfair advantage this is just crazy.

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[primitiveman]

Can you explain the difference between primary, seconday and recorded numbers?
My boat for instance has a primary no of 1076 and a recorded no. of 1163.
What do you do if a boat in the club has no number (more returns required) but wins everything in site, (the pirate in question being a Jeanneau Attalia)?

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[ex-Gladys]

Easy. Remember that PY nos are empirical and based on live race results and returns from clubs

Primary Number is given to a class that has enough returns and results to provide good quality data that the number is accurate

Secondary means that there is still a good number of returns but fewer than above and therefore the number is less reliable

Recorded Number can be anything from something that is not quite a SN to a guess. IIRC RYA advice is to treat PN as sacrosanct, give some leeway to changing SN's and go through the non-trivial process for RN's.

In your case the Race Committee should use the SN of your boat and adjust the RN of the other.

<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras

Anderson 26 "Amber"

 

[Aeolus_IV]

New handicaps and changes to handicap are typically set by the sailing committee with a club. In my experience they don't deliberately go out to provide an unfair advantage to a given boat - it's just very difficult to to guess how fast a boat is. Then there is the crew factor, who ultimately make the difference. At the end of the day I have come to believe that handicaps at club level are there to give everyone a fair chance of winning something at the end of the year.

Jeff.

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