Baggy
Active member
Dont you mean... Put the Kellet on anchoring technique
I'll get my Dingy
I'll get my Dingy
Put the kettle on anchoring technique
- Thread starter sailaboutvic
- Start date
OldBawley
Active member
Great tip. Bravo.
noelex
Well-known member
I agree that setting the anchor with a good amount of reverse (unless the wind is strong) is important.
It buries (hopefully ) the anchor and provides a test that the anchor is holding.
As has been mentioned, the test is not absolute. The anchor, or even the chain can get caught around a rock and hold a considerable force, only to let go with a slight change of direction of pull. Like this example:
Nevertheless, most sailboat engines can simulate the same sort of force as 25-30 knots of wind, so the test provides a reasonable reassurance that the anchor will hold in this amount of wind.
If you have chosen an anchor that rotates well to new wind directions, it provides a high level of confidence that the anchor will remain buried and "shuffle" around if the wind direction changes.
If you do not do this, in most cases the anchor will set itself in response to rising wind force. Modern anchors, in particular, have a very high success rate of setting the first time when dropped, and it is no different with gradually rising wind. However, there are a few potential problems.
1. The substrate may be poor. Even anchorages with an overall good bottom there are sometimes patches of rock etc.
2. There may be debris. It is depressing how much rubbish is on the bottom in out of the way anchorages.
This anchor has not been set. If the wind picks up will the fluke get fouled on the tyre?
3. Anchors are ideally set with a gradual increase in force. This is easy to do under motor or using the windlass clutch in strong conditions. In most cases this also happens naturally with a rise in wind strength, but sometimes the wind can arrive suddenly. A sudden high load on an unset anchor is less successful.
There is some belief that leaving the anchor for some time to "settle" before applying a setting force results in higher chance of the anchor digging in. With new generation anchors it is not worth the trouble, but some skippers routinely drop the anchor then wait (some minutes, or even hours) before before apply the setting force. This is more hassle, and when anchoring in strong wind the anchor is subject to a high force immediately, so the technique is not applicable. Providing the anchor is eventually set and tested there is no problem with this technique. It is different to the examples the OP has given.
It buries (hopefully
) the anchor and provides a test that the anchor is holding. As has been mentioned, the test is not absolute. The anchor, or even the chain can get caught around a rock and hold a considerable force, only to let go with a slight change of direction of pull. Like this example:
Nevertheless, most sailboat engines can simulate the same sort of force as 25-30 knots of wind, so the test provides a reasonable reassurance that the anchor will hold in this amount of wind.
If you have chosen an anchor that rotates well to new wind directions, it provides a high level of confidence that the anchor will remain buried and "shuffle" around if the wind direction changes.
If you do not do this, in most cases the anchor will set itself in response to rising wind force. Modern anchors, in particular, have a very high success rate of setting the first time when dropped, and it is no different with gradually rising wind. However, there are a few potential problems.
1. The substrate may be poor. Even anchorages with an overall good bottom there are sometimes patches of rock etc.
2. There may be debris. It is depressing how much rubbish is on the bottom in out of the way anchorages.
This anchor has not been set. If the wind picks up will the fluke get fouled on the tyre?
3. Anchors are ideally set with a gradual increase in force. This is easy to do under motor or using the windlass clutch in strong conditions. In most cases this also happens naturally with a rise in wind strength, but sometimes the wind can arrive suddenly. A sudden high load on an unset anchor is less successful.
There is some belief that leaving the anchor for some time to "settle" before applying a setting force results in higher chance of the anchor digging in. With new generation anchors it is not worth the trouble, but some skippers routinely drop the anchor then wait (some minutes, or even hours) before before apply the setting force. This is more hassle, and when anchoring in strong wind the anchor is subject to a high force immediately, so the technique is not applicable. Providing the anchor is eventually set and tested there is no problem with this technique. It is different to the examples the OP has given.
Carmel2
New member
"If you have chosen an anchor that rotates well to new wind directions, it provides a high level of confidence that the anchor will remain buried and "shuffle" around if the wind direction changes."
Interesting, which do and don't "shuffle" well???
Interesting, which do and don't "shuffle" well???
RichardS
N/A
Generally speaking, new generation concave flukes i.e. fluke tips pointing upwards do shuffle. Plough flukes i.e. tips pointing downwards, are less reliable at shuffling and break out then reset. You hope.
Or so they say!
Richard
pmagowan
Well-known member
I now have a rocna after using a CQR replica for years. I use the high revs reverse technique to bed it in. Then I normally have my head over the side trying to find the anchor to see if it is well in. Every time I have seen it there is only the top of the loop showing. I use transits but I also like to feel the chain while she is in reverse. You can get all kinds of little tingles coming up the chain that tell you an anchor is not quite resting happily. The biggest difference I noticed witht he rocna compared to the CQR is the rate of set. I used to set the CQR with the chain in my hand, feeling it bed in while we reversed. With the rocna you could break an arm doing this as it sets very quick with a jolt.
Of course there is no fool proof method. I left my cousin onboard in Campbeltown and she dragged after a whole day sitting still with no significant wind, just on the tide. He had been below having a kip. I don't know if someone went over the chain or something but she had been bar tight on the engine when I left. The only other thing I could think of is that ther is a concrete drainage pipe underwater and perhaps we had been near the exit of that and the discharge had washed the anchor out. Seemed very odd but I wasn't there until the next day. The pontoons were full when we arrived in at 3am which is why we anchored.
Of course there is no fool proof method. I left my cousin onboard in Campbeltown and she dragged after a whole day sitting still with no significant wind, just on the tide. He had been below having a kip. I don't know if someone went over the chain or something but she had been bar tight on the engine when I left. The only other thing I could think of is that ther is a concrete drainage pipe underwater and perhaps we had been near the exit of that and the discharge had washed the anchor out. Seemed very odd but I wasn't there until the next day. The pontoons were full when we arrived in at 3am which is why we anchored.
noelex
Well-known member
Yes good question.
It is an important aspect of anchor performance, but one that is very difficult to study. Most traditional anchor tests have only looked at the holding performance of the anchors in a straight line.
User reports are valuable, but in many cases an anchor that rotates poorly and breaks out or nearly breaks out will reset on most occasions and the owner is unaware that there was any problem.
I believe one of the best ways of studying this aspect of anchor performance is to observe visually how an anchor rotates underwater. I try to take every opportunity to watch anchors while they are rotating. If I miss the actual rotation, the marks in substrate generally show how the anchor has moved.
Some designs remain completely buried and rotate flat with very little list. Other designs will develop a high list sticking a large portion of their fluke above the substrate. In this attitude they have very little holding power. In most cases they will rapidly reset in the new direction and the owner is unaware of problem, but in this attitude a sudden gust will break the anchor out completely and once moving there is a significant risk the anchor will continue to drag.
Observing anchors in this way is not perfect. You need to take the variables such as how well the anchor was set in the first place when evaluating the performance. However, there is a very marked and consistent difference between anchors that rotate well and poorly.
In my opinion, the worst rotational performance is from the flat "Danforth" style anchors. As the anchor develops a list the long stock sometimes digs in and pivots the anchor substantially out of the substrate. Much better, but the worst of the other designs are the fixed convex plough anchors. These tend to develop a reasonably high list as they rotate. The concave anchors especially the roll bar anchors are the best generally rotating close to level with their flukes completely under the surface.
This is a broad overview. There differences between the different models within the categories. A good anchor design that sets well in the first place will rotate better than a model that only manages a shallow bury. This is an area that needs more study. It is an aspect of anchor performance that should receive more emphasis.
noelex
Well-known member
Carmel2
New member
So a none bendy Rocna should fit the bill??
RichardS
N/A
steveallan
Member
What will your reply to your insurance company be when they refuse to pay your claim because you were aware of a problem but did not take any action to avoid it?
Carmel2
New member
Whoosh...........
michael_w
Well-known member
My favorite way of ensuring the anchor is set is:
Moving gently ahead, 1 Kt at most, drop anchor and pay out the rode as the boat moves forward. When you have laid approx 3/4 of your intended length, snub the rode. Anchor digs in and the boat turns round. Pay out the remaining rode. Job done.
Provisos are you need a boat with a reasonable bow overhang and don't go too fast or you'll tear the windlass/cleats off the deck.
Much easier than trying to motor backwards.
Moving gently ahead, 1 Kt at most, drop anchor and pay out the rode as the boat moves forward. When you have laid approx 3/4 of your intended length, snub the rode. Anchor digs in and the boat turns round. Pay out the remaining rode. Job done.
Provisos are you need a boat with a reasonable bow overhang and don't go too fast or you'll tear the windlass/cleats off the deck.
Much easier than trying to motor backwards.
RichardS
N/A
It's not going to work in Croatia unfortunately. You will hit the stern of the boat in front of you as there usually isn't that much room!
Richard
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
You just have to laugh
noelex
Well-known member
An anchor sets most reliably when you give it a gradually increasing force over a reasonable length of time. In a good substrate most anchors will set fine with less than this ideal type of pull, but the failure rate is higher with the more abrupt set of the anchor which occurs with this technique.
The biggest drawback is that it is more difficult to tell if the anchor is really set and holding. Sometimes the anchor will be just dragging along the bottom. The boat slows to stop and swings around from the force generated by the dragging anchor and the skipper declares the job is done.
There are clues that the anchor is really set. The boat should come to quite an abrupt stop with the bow dipping down and rapidly swinging around. People experienced in this technique are good at judging if the anchor has really dug in, but many cannot recognise the difference between a well set, deeply buried anchor and the boat stopping from the gradual resistance of a of a poorly set anchor.
When using the more standard method of applying reverse, a poor set is much more obvious. The boat continues to more backwards while the reverse power is applied.
This does not mean that dropping the anchor while moving forward should never be used, (although in many boats it is impossible to avoid scraping the bow if you have all chain) more that you should be aware of limitations and try and hone your skills detecting the difference between a good and bad set.
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[2068]
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It's a good job that you guys don't have sailing yachts.
What an unpleasant, and gratuitously insulting post.
RichardS
N/A
I'm not actually too sure what NormanS was getting at ..... but I suspect that the "roll-eyes" smiley releases him from the charge of being unpleasant or insulting. :encouragement:
Richard
NormanS
Well-known member
Flowerpower posted in a thread about berthing at Kirkcubright, where there was a misunderstanding about signage, which has now been amicably resolved, that it was "scary, and typically Scottish", or words to that effect. His response was completely wrong, ill-founded, and insulting to all those of a Scottish persuasion. I therefore responded that his post was unpleasant and gratuitously insulting. I stand by my comment.
It seems to have rightly struck a raw nerve with the flowery one.
[2068]
...
I regret to inform you that your application for the post of "Ambassador for Scottish Tourism" has been declined.
Feedback from the panel indicated that they would be "Much less likely to visit Scotland", and this is sadly not the result we were looking for.
Yours, etc.
