Prosecution for calling a lifeboat?

LONG_KEELER said:
And long may the RLNI continue with that policy - god bless em.
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We don't criticise, that's the CG's job!

In fact very often we will praise a rescuee for having the right safety equipment, a well-maintained boat, wearing a lifejacket etc

Apart from getting a safety message across, it also helps offset the media's default position which is to imply that anyone who needs rescuing is somehow at fault.
 
Greemble said:
I can see how it might be considered that their behaviour would put their rescuer in danger too.
However, such a prosecution will also deter people from calling for help when they need it.
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I wonder how many people needed to be rescued yesterday from cycling accidents? I can’t see the mountain rescue team were in any danger from the weather, and not sure any significant Covid-19 risk compared to a cycle tumble.
 
elton said:
No one ventures out with the intention of needing rescue.
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No, but some people go out (or up) without giving the slightest thought to avoiding the need for it. In this case it seems that they were poorly equipped and simply got stuck - they were safe and well when the MRT found them.
 
Little Grebe said:
One stalwart member of this forum reported his significant other has a cycling accident requiring the emergency services and (I think) a visit to hospital.

I don't think anybody here has owned up to having a car crash or a significant other mishap.
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Yes it does seem odd (in an otherwise relatively well managed process in Scotland) the bizarre restrictions on being very widely spaced in the outdoors - by far the safest from a Covid-19 perspective - whilst driving to and crowding into garden centres etc is allowed.
 
dunedin said:
Yes it does seem odd (in an otherwise relatively well managed process in Scotland) the bizarre restrictions on being very widely spaced in the outdoors - by far the safest from a Covid-19 perspective - whilst driving to and crowding into garden centres etc is allowed.
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I know no more than the press reports, which are so similar that I expect they all come from the same stringer or press release, but it seems that the pair are been done for heading up a Munro unprepared and ill-equipped. "Culpable and reckless conduct" seems to be a very wide-ranging charge. It appears to be used regularly to deal with people who throw things off Edinburgh bridges onto the streets below (Culpable and Reckless Conduct) and has also been used against an HIV-positive man who had unprotected sex (ibid). It has also been used against a man who punched through the glass door of a pizza shop in Lossiemouth (Summary decree granted in personal injury action against man convicted of ‘culpable and reckless’ conduct) and it can be used against cyclists who cause injury (https://assets.publishing.service.g...lementary-cycling-walking-report-scotland.pdf). It seems that there is no need to cause harm, just incur a reckless risk of it.
 
elton said:
No one ventures out with the intention of needing rescue. Everyone makes mistakes, with hindsight. So I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted for requiring recue. Also, a rescue that makes the news, is often a lesson for many others, and it's practical exercise for the rescue services.
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While I'm sure that's true in general, wasn't there a case where a "Captain Calamity" was in the habit of setting off in the full knowledge that he would probably need assistance? Someone who regarded the RNLI as a sort of breakdown service?
 
AntarcticPilot said:
While I'm sure that's true in general, wasn't there a case where a "Captain Calamity" was in the habit of setting off in the full knowledge that he would probably need assistance? Someone who regarded the RNLI as a sort of breakdown service?
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There have been a few of those. Most recently three Americans starting an Atlantic crossing. Had their ninth encounter with the RNLI in St Ives bay and got no further. Then they accidentally set fire to the boat in Hayle Harbour.
 
Greemble said:
I can see how it might be considered that their behaviour would put their rescuer in danger too.
However, such a prosecution will also deter people from calling for help when they need it.
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People who volunteer for rescue teams , in every activity, accept a level of risk. They mostly started to rescue fellow locals when something had gone wrong but that's been extended to outsiders and tourists.

In this case:

Police said the two people had "not been suitably equipped" for the climb. Beinn A' Chroin rises to 942m (3,090ft) and is one of Scotland's Munros, a mountain more than 914.4m (3,000ft) high.
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Being suitably equipped is case dependent. Going off running up there in trainers, as above, in decent weather is fine, setting off in a storm in the early evening in trainers probably isn't..

We don't get chapter and verse in this case but I think its a good idea to send messages to people that they have to take some level of responsibility and I don't buy people being put off asking for help is something goes wrong. Not being suitably equipped is something that the courts should sort out, so no fixed penalty fines.


JumbleDuck said:
It seems to me - from press reports - that Mountain Rescue Teams are often willing to criticise on the record those they rescue, whil ethe RNLI never seem to do that. Perhaps witnesses from the MRT will add beef to the prosecution case.
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I've heard anecdotes about RNLI crews giving some quite serious private rollickings, although they be apocryphal.
 
JumbleDuck said:
A couple who attempted to climb Beinn A' Chroin near Crianlarich have been charged with culpable and reckless conduct after they needed rescued by the local MRT. This is a Scots Common Law offence. I wonder if we might see it used against someone whose idiocy results in a lifeboat call out?

Two charged after 60-mile trip to climb mountain
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There was a feature article in this magazine last year about rescue at sea.
The yacht was held up in a French channel port with engine problems. They set off knowing that a much cheaper repair would be had in UK - as they closed a British port the lifeboat brought them in !
 
SimonFa said:
I've heard anecdotes about RNLI crews giving some quite serious private rollickings, although they be apocryphal.
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I've only ever done that once. To a bloke who took 11 people, mostly children, out on his 16' sportsboat (just purchased) in a force 6. They took a couple of green ones over the front and it all went wrong from there.
Once we were all safely ashore I took the chap aside and asked if I might offer him some safety advice. Which I did.

Considering how angry I was, I thought my advice was very controlled in the circumstances.
 
Before the slight relaxation in lockdown on Friday there, the Police could charge you with breaking lockdown, as you were not supposed to travel.

This is my pic as we set off up the hill about 10 days ago:

Lost hillwalkers 'met by police' after Argyll rescue

(Arrochar MRT) the Police were most keen that we bring the lost folk off the hill, they were charged (they had driven from Motherwell). Uninjured, just lost in cloud with no map nor compass.

However as the 5 mile limit currently in force is not a legal one (i believe), that is probably why the Killin MRT rescuees were charged with Culpable and Reckless? They were uninjured, but seemed unable to get themselves off a hill with good vis. I have no more info than what was in the media, however.

Some MRT's criticise publicly the less prepared, most do not. We've all done daft stuff, we don't want to stop folk from phoning if they are stuck/injured/lost etc.

Yes, i think there is a chance that if a lifeboat becomes involved at the moment, then you may get charged with something. Yes, i think that that may deter some folk from calling them. Best stick to gov't advice for now?

Yes MRT members are aware of the extra risk of rescuing people, although it is not as high as the media would have you believe. But in addition to that, now, is the Covid risk. If i go on a shout and the casualty or their friend, or one of our team members turns out to have Covid, we are all out of the game, potentially for up to two weeks, depending on how quickly we can get tested/results. This has an obvious knock on effect for the next few days in that another MRT callout may not be feasible, and also for the day jobs that we do - I'm a GP so it can have a significant effect on that, until i get tested etc. It is impossible to do e.g. a stretcher carry without going a lot closer than 2m.
 
Thanks for the insights bikedaft, makes sense, especially potentially taking the rescue service off line if a big chunk have to isolate.
 
Juan Twothree said:
We don't criticise, that's the CG's job!

In fact very often we will praise a rescuee for having the right safety equipment, a well-maintained boat, wearing a lifejacket etc

Apart from getting a safety message across, it also helps offset the media's default position which is to imply that anyone who needs rescuing is somehow at fault.
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I can provide personal testimony to that one. You all know I had a "bump one foggy night". Both RNLI and CG were brilliant. They took a look around my boat and were very complimentary of both the level of preparedness and kit onboard, plus they made the point that I had done the right thing in calling them out.
 
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