Propeller Advice after Nightmare

[D and G]

Hi all, If you saw my original post about getting the props repaired on our Volvo Penta AQ270 Sterndrives, well it gets worse, the original owner very kindly offered to remove and send off the props for repair to save me the near 600 mile round trip, it all went wrong when he posted them via Everi, now they have lost my both props, one good the other needing repair, it gets even more bad when he only insured them for £300, so while he fights on my behalf to get some compensation it's looking like I'm going to have to buy 2 new props, the info I have from the previous owners is they were 813285 14 x 13 and 813285 14 x 13 in left and right fitment, think the part numbers are from Keyparts if not genuine volvo p/n?

They will eventually be powering our Princess P25 powered by 2 x Perkins 4108, I know zero on how to spec a prop for a boat, so does the above spec sound about right ot should I consider another prop pitch?

 

[QBhoy]

Hi. Tough one. But I know that Michigan marine are very helpful on things like this…but a few things to consider listed later below. Michigan marine offer as good a quality aftermarket VP prop range for sure though.
But…for starters, you’ll likely need to have some info to hand..and there is a big one, depending on something in particular, that may or may not be the case with your set up.
Gear ratio would be handy to know on the outdrive
The engines rpm range or max rpm recommended figure
If you have any idea on what rpm and speed the boat saw before with the current prop, that be good too.
But here is the difficulty you might be facing. Am I right in thinking that the Perkins engines may not be original to the boat ? They could be..but if they aren’t and your boat originally came with twin VP 4 cylinder petrol engines originally…as they usually did..then I’m afraid that it’s often the case that when this is done (transplant from petrol to diesel)..there is often no consideration at all towards the outdrive gear ratio and or prop set up. As in, someone throws a pair of diesels in to replace a pair of Petrols, not thinking about the obvious rpm and power delivery output difference between the two. The Petrol engine will deliver its power at a much higher rpm that the diesels. Usually perhaps around 4000-5000 rpm or around there. The diesels at a general assumption, will be around 3000 give or take either way. An original set up would have the gear ratio and or props specified and pitched to suit. If the transplant has not dealt with this requirement, you may well find that even if you did know what props you originally had..they could have been wrongly suited anyway.
Probably not what you want to hear..but a true and common story. Of course..feel free to ignore all this, should the lovely P25 have been fitted with these Perkins from new. Not something I’m aware of though..not to say it’s not a possibility all the same.
If I was you…I’d go onto the Facebook classic princess owners page and ask some info from other p25 or pilgrim 25 owners and what they have. Hope that helps.

 

[D and G]

Hi. Tough one. But I know that Michigan marine are very helpful on things like this…but a few things to consider listed later below. Michigan marine offer as good a quality aftermarket VP prop range for sure though.
But…for starters, you’ll likely need to have some info to hand..and there is a big one, depending on something in particular, that may or may not be the case with your set up.
Gear ratio would be handy to know on the outdrive
The engines rpm range or max rpm recommended figure
If you have any idea on what rpm and speed the boat saw before with the current prop, that be good too.
But here is the difficulty you might be facing. Am I right in thinking that the Perkins engines may not be original to the boat ? They could be..but if they aren’t and your boat originally came with twin VP 4 cylinder petrol engines originally…as they usually did..then I’m afraid that it’s often the case that when this is done (transplant from petrol to diesel)..there is often no consideration at all towards the outdrive gear ratio and or prop set up. As in, someone throws a pair of diesels in to replace a pair of Petrols, not thinking about the obvious rpm and power delivery output difference between the two. The Petrol engine will deliver its power at a much higher rpm that the diesels. Usually perhaps around 4000-5000 rpm or around there. The diesels at a general assumption, will be around 3000 give or take either way. An original set up would have the gear ratio and or props specified and pitched to suit. If the transplant has not dealt with this requirement, you may well find that even if you did know what props you originally had..they could have been wrongly suited anyway.
Probably not what you want to hear..but a true and common story. Of course..feel free to ignore all this, should the lovely P25 have been fitted with these Perkins from new. Not something I’m aware of though..not to say it’s not a possibility all the same.
If I was you…I’d go onto the Facebook classic princess owners page and ask some info from other p25 or pilgrim 25 owners and what they have. Hope that helps.

Thanks for a great reply, you are spot on she came originally with VP petrols so think you called it spot on. Will try the FB classic page but just want to get her back to her new home berth and try and get some trips in weather playing ball.

 

[QBhoy]

Thanks for a great reply, you are spot on she came originally with VP petrols so think you called it spot on. Will try the FB classic page but just want to get her back to her new home berth and try and get some trips in weather playing ball.

No problems. All that said, if you use a prop calculator, entering realistic number assumptions into the unknown fields…and the known gathered fields, like gear ratio and engine rpm specs…you might get a starter for 10..that and along with details from other owners..you’ll get there or a start at it maybe.

 

[D and G]

No problems. All that said, if you use a prop calculator, entering realistic number assumptions into the unknown fields…and the known gathered fields, like gear ratio and engine rpm specs…you might get a starter for 10..that and along with details from other owners..you’ll get there or a start at it maybe.

Not as easy as I thought it would be lol, but thanks for your great advice.

 

[oldgit]

A cheapskate post..............
Might be worth bearing in mind if your boat and that engine/outdrive combination will only ever be used on an inland waterway at 6 knots, getting the pitch exactly right is not as critical as in some high powered pocket rocket ship operating close to WOT for long periods offshore.
Finding it difficult to justify spending a small fortune on a set of four new props for that boat ?, if a set of second hand props appear with pitch/size fairly close to what you need. Worth considering ?
There are a few outfits around that will supply secondhand/recon props.

Many boats on inland waterways will have been fitted with a finer prop pitch than standard,increased water flow improves directional control and helps charge batteries over shorter trips.
The engines will rev little higher at cruise as a result, doubt the difference will be annoying.

 

[QBhoy]

A cheapskate post..............
Might be worth bearing in mind if your boat and that engine/outdrive combination will only ever be used on an inland waterway at 6 knots, getting the pitch exactly right is not as critical as in some high powered pocket rocket ship operating close to WOT for long periods offshore.
Finding it difficult to justify spending a small fortune on a set of four new props for that boat ?, if a set of second hand props appear with pitch/size fairly close to what you need. Worth considering ?
There are a few outfits around that will supply secondhand/recon props.

Many boats on inland waterways will have been fitted with a finer prop pitch than standard,increased water flow improves directional control and helps charge batteries over shorter trips.
The engines will rev little higher at cruise as a result, doubt the difference will be annoying.

Good call. Didn’t realise they were duo props to be fair. I thought he meant 270 SP ‘a. Either way…that’s a good point, well made. Not too important if it’s not for planing. As long as it’s not loaded up too much I suppose.

 

[scottie]

one of the best sources used to Lancing Marine Brighton and it may well be worth a phone call at least and they would be more likely to help if given some Business
two things the VP prop part number will be either lh or rh definitely not be both and I wouldn’t expect being able to replicate the photo shown 4 propellers are not required for 2@270 drives the partnumhers nor sizes do not relate to duoprops
you will need to establish what ratio the existing drives are best done by physically observing input and output shafts although there may be numbers on the drive changing gear ratios would nut include thim being amended
you may find that people do not read the thread fully before pontificating

 

[D and G]

Thanks all for the replies/tips, finally the boating gods have worked their magic and the lost props have now turned up so sent pictures of the damaged Starboard prop to Carwyn of Castle Marine and he says he can fix it, so the previous owner is posting them via Royal Mail Special Delivery so at least they will get there. So one more trip to Chatham to re-fit them, install the diesel heater exhaust fitting and put my new Garmin GPSmaps 923xse and GT56 transducer in, then finally when she gets moved to Cardiff on 22nd November we can start to enjoy her and all these hold ups and snaps will be a bad dream lol

 

[oldgit]

.....oops SP not DP.
Glad props turned up.
Have you got somebody to move her, can recommend Squirrel Marine down at Queenborough.
They moved both my Princess 25 and Princess 33.

 

[D and G]

.....oops SP not DP.
Glad props turned up.
Have you got somebody to move her, can recommend Squirrel Marine down at Queenborough.
They moved both my Princess 25 and Princess 33.

They should be with Castle Marine today so fingers crossed Carwyn will do a quick repair job and I can get them re fitted. Essex Boat and Caravan are booked to move her on the 22nd November but will keep your suggestions in mind as looking at another bigger boat that is on the East Coast, why are the ones we like never near us lol. Thanks for your help
Cheers
Geoff

 

[oldgit]

Nothing that will be remotely interesting or within your price bracket will be up for sale locally.
The inverse boat condition rule always applies .
The further away the boat and the more difficult to get to, the worse the condition.
Any viewing that involves organising an overnight stay will guarantee disappointment.
Until you finally buy something that was almost not completely unlike what you set out to buy at the price you wanted to pay.
There then follows the turmoil about bringing it home on its own keel or on a low loader.
Well remember forum suggestions that it should not be a problem bringing a boat that had been laying idle for quite sometime in N Wales around Lands End back to civilization.
The seller swore blind the boat had been serviced within an inch of its life.
It came back on a lowloader and an impeller failed as the boat left the launching hoist.
Within a week of your "new" boat arriving at least 2 perfect well loved examples at a sensible price will appear on a brokers list at a marina just down the road.
Moral of the story never ever look at brokers listings after buying a boat?