Problem with new Lofrans 1000 install

Interesting.... I saw what could be an error too, but a different one....

My immediate reaction was that the output from the counter (pin 7) should go to the -ve (pin 4)... otherwise there could be a potential path for the main current through the counter and solenoid........ but as you say... need to know what is going on inside the gubbins really.... this could however, explain the outcome you have...
 
Hmm - faulty wiring diagram - thats not great in an instruction manual is it /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Actually though - I'm not using the counter (sorry dind't make that clear) - so not sure this is the direct cause - I just had it wired with a simple up / down switch - using wires 1-4

Having had the back off a looked at the molten mess I do think its the sender wiring that may be an issue - to be honest I don't really understand what they've tried to do.

It has a sensor tthat detects I guess a spinning magnet - this has +/- and a sender I presume - so far so good.

But then they also connect 2 light -ve wires to one of the brushes on the armature and also connect a light weight +ve feed from one of the heavy duty solenoid connections back to the choclolate box that connects everything together. (there are also a couple of what appear to be resisitors ?? linking neighbouring choc block connectors together)

To my simple mind - that arrangement of +/- wiring seems to have joined the low current cables driving the solenoids to the high current driving the motor - so at best the load driving the motor itself might be shared between the heavy and light weight /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif - which might indeed result in exactly what happened !

Maybe their internal wiring diagram isn't all that it could be either !

I've also just verified that if I simply connect just the solenoids in the simplest way you can - ignoring the chain counter bits - and other unknown bits - then all seems to work.

Seeing as I'm not planning on using the chain counter I'm tempted on just sorting it and moving on (probably about an hours work) and hope I don't need to claim on the warranty versus waiting (and I'm still waiting) for megastore marine to get back to me so I can start the process of trying to explain its faulty...

Thanks for the input
 
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I just had it wired with a simple up / down switch - using wires 1-4

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There shouldn't be any connection to wire no. 4, as far as I can tell from your drawing??

The chain counter switch on ours is just a reed switch (unused!). I would expect one end of it to go to +ve or -ve, and the other to come out on wire no.5 (again no connection if no chain counter. What have you wired in for the chain counter that needs to be disconnected?

The 'resistors' in the control box are probably either diodes (cylindrical & black more than likely), or 'varistors' (disc shaped). Either way it is probable that they're there to suppress electrical spikes when the motor / solenoid is switched on or off.

Really difficult to see how you would blow that fuse unless you had a short / wrongly connected switch from wire 2 to 4 (or possibly 2 to 5 - in which case, the chain counter switch would probably be toast).... Unless there is an internal fault.

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Andy
 
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There is an error in the diagram I think. The positive fused wire should go to pin 2 of the motor (via pin 1-6), but without the drawing of what's inside (exactly) I can't see what it would do.

[/ QUOTE ]No error. The "pin 1-6" isn't a link, it's merely an optional chain counter. The positive voltage on wire 2 of the windlass comes from inside the windlass.
 
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Ah... which would make my supposition incorrect too.... yes, I can see what you mean pvb... the counter would work then on the pins 6 or 7 on the counter being made positive when the respective foot switches are closed....

[/ QUOTE ]

....and receiving a pulse on pin 10....

Andy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Which means that a simple test would be.... if you connect pins 1 to 2 the windlass should run up... and 3 to 2 should run down.... if this works with nothing else connected, then the problem is with the remote/chain counter.. as concluded above..... and as you've concluded, possibly to do with the -ve on pin 4

personally, i'd still try and get it properly sorted....
 
Hmm - no connection on wire 4 ???
Is that where I've gone wrong ?

Got a nasty feeling that I've just realised what I've done - public humilation time ...

I read it as supplying + & - in on wires 2 and 4 - in fact its suggesting that thats what comes out isn't it - which means that the internal wiring makes a lot more sense.

And everything else starts to be explained with something of a crashing reality /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I thought the solenoid needed its own separate power feed (to keep it completely independant from the main feed) - no at this point I can't explain why I assumed that - but you know when you've decided something in your head ...

I did wonder if the resitors were diodes - but couldn't see the directional arrow.

Anyway - I think its time to retire to the garage with my soldering iron - a dose of humility - and think myself lucky that I did no more than fry a couple of wires - and cross any warranty issues down the line - which I'd pretty much decided to do anyway (P.S. if anyone monitoring this - its a "friends" OK ?)

Thanks all for your input - I'm just stepping outside - I may be a while ....

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Lol..... easily done.... thats the way I read it at first too.....

At least you now know what the problem was/is rather than have that constant nagging doubt (or in my case, constant nagging need to keep fiddling until it doesn't work at all /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
 
For a fleeting instant, it did cross my mind that you might have connected power 'into' the switching circuit, but I thought "Nah......"

Pleased you've figured out what's wrong. The good news is that I don't think the high current will have passed through any of the switches (just travelled through the light wiring in parallel with the heavy stuff), so if you replace the over-heated wiring, it should be as right as rain (if I understand what's happened correctly).

It it were me, I would be heavily into expletive repeated territory now /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy
 
Well - it nice to know I can still surpass peoples expectations - even if crass stupidity wan't perhaps quite the field I hoped to excel in !

Yes - I think you've understood exactly what happened.

What impresses me is that I managed to decipher their melted wiring - establish that the issue was that it seemed they had paralleled the power lines - but still not question that I had wired it wrong /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

<<It it were me, I would be heavily into expletive repeated territory now>> thats why I had to retire to the garage (out of range of younger ears....)
 
You're clearly drawing some or all of the motor current through the solenoid control wires but I guess you've figured that out now.

Two points to bear in mind-

(a) you need a 100A breaker for that size of windlass and it will trip if the motor comes under heavy load. The windlass is supposed to hoist the chain and anchor aboard, not pull the boat up to the anchor in a breeze, nor should the windlass be used for breaking out a well-buried anchor.

(b) You should always have an engine running when operating the windlass. You can get away without the engine for dropping but not for hoisting.

And while we're talking about lofrans windlasses - if you have a clutch in the drive, be religious about dismantling and greasing or it will seize solid! Even if you don't have a clutch, i.e. no warping drum, still take it apart and grease the shaft from time to time or you may find you can't split the above-deck part from the motor to remove it from the boat. Don't ask me how I know!
 
Hey PP, I'm really glad it seems to be sorted. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Do come back and let us know if all goes well.
 
Re-wired and seems to be working now (on the bench)

It runs pretty hot though (casing uncomfortable to touch) - but I guess all those amps have to be going somewhere - anybody touched the casing when running ? Obviously just concerned that I haven't damaged anything else

Thanks
James
 
If you do the sums

the winch is pulling about 85 amps - out of a partially discharged battery which is probably only good for its 225 amps for a few seconds.

Volts down = amps up !!

Mind you the wires shouldn't have fried - what cross-section have you got feeding it? and how far?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Re-wired and seems to be working now (on the bench)

It runs pretty hot though (casing uncomfortable to touch) - but I guess all those amps have to be going somewhere - anybody touched the casing when running ? Obviously just concerned that I haven't damaged anything else

Hi James,

Very glad it appears to be sorted out.

We have the Lofrans Airon (1000w) which, I believe, uses the same motor as yours. Our motor seldom gets more than warm. I know that's not very specific, but you can easily hold your hand on it.

Just yesterday as it happens, I used the windlass to load the bower anchor chain (50 metres) into the chain locker ready for launching next week. With two brief breaks to poke the chain about in the locker, it ran continuously. The motor was barely more than cold when I finished. The 30 amp multi-stage battery charger was on, charging the (already fully charged) 410 amp battery bank, so perfect conditions.

If we're anchoring, especially if having more than one go at it(!), our windlass motor will get 'hand-warm' as stated above. It is sited in an open-bottomed casing in our forecabin, so is well ventilated though.

As others have indicated, lower voltage will produce higher amperage so the motor will get hotter. It doesn't sound as if you have a problem that won't be corrected when the installation is complete and operating with a full, well-charged battery bank.

Hope all goes well.
Jerry
 
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