Princess Factory visit by Aquaholic

[sharpness]

I enjoyed watching all 4 episodes. Gave a good insight into how much work and time goes into making a modern day motorboat.
Though I have identified where Princess could make a small cut back on their huge wage bill. Get rid of the the bloke and girl sat in the back of Ross’s car. What exactly do they do !!

 

[jfm]

Here's a recent walkthrough of the flagship Princess X95, built in 2023 and already for sale.

Brings back a slight memory - I was in Marina di Olbia when they shot that video.

If you can get over the visual "appeal" of x95 in profile, and look further, this video shows some of the fundamental issues where princess are being delusional. They could appeal to the 30m market, but not if they continue to build boats that feel like stretched 50 footers. Look at the sofas at 2:47 and 8:10 - they look like seats in a train station executive lounge and are totally inappropriate on a €10m boat - sofas have to come from Minotti or someone in that league.

In contrast, the deck furniture works because it is bought in from a premium manufacturer - Cocowolf (who manufacture in Derbyshire, UK, btw).

Then look at the cabinet at 3:04. Leaving aside those awful clickey door knobs, there is not a single door panel/gap that is correct/lined up. It looks like a C grade school woodwork project. Even if the doors were lined up, it is such a disappointing piece of furniture - like an office filing cabinet.

That per se isn't the problem - the problem is that Princess think it's great - they are really delusional about this and until they see that problem nothing's going to change. They need to change their game (including getting new designers) to become serious at this size and price point, and they need to change how they build if they want to make profit. A 5-7 year turnaround project.

 

[Martxer]

The door fitting on that cabinet is shocking they aren’t even in twist definitely a job n knock.

 

[petem]

If you can get over the visual "appeal" of x95 in profile, and look further, this video shows some of the fundamental issues where princess are being delusional. They could appeal to the 30m market, but not if they continue to build boats that feel like stretched 50 footers. Look at the sofas at 2:47 and 8:10 - they look like seats in a train station executive lounge and are totally inappropriate on a €10m boat - sofas have to come from Minotti or someone in that league.

The grey one looks the same as my sofa at home!

 

[ari]

I enjoyed watching all 4 episodes. Gave a good insight into how much work and time goes into making a modern day motorboat.
Though I have identified where Princess could make a small cut back on their huge wage bill. Get rid of the the bloke and girl sat in the back of Ross’s car. What exactly do they do !!

According to the video comments (where this question was asked and answered several times), they were there to go ahead of filming and ensure that those working in the factory were happy to be filmed, or presumably arranged so that they wouldn't be, if not.

 

[jfm]

And that required 2 ppl not one. Princess seems seriously over staffed

 

[volvopaul]

And that required 2 ppl not one. Princess seems seriously over staffed

Extra eyes needed to see where Nick was pointing his camera.

 

[Hurricane]

And that required 2 ppl not one. Princess seems seriously over staffed

I've been thinking about some of the comments posted on this thread and I think you have to be careful when running an organisation like Princess.
Yes, I do believe that there is a lot of "fat" that could be slimmed down but you also need to think about company morale.
You don't want a "that will do" attitude - rather, you need a "pride in the product" feeling across the whole company.

I can relate to my own experience of Princess.
It was a long time ago, but I think back to the factory visits that I have done.
After our initial visits to see our actual boat in construction, I have been into the factory a few times since.
Each time, I experienced a very positive attitude amongst the staff.
Some of these visits were unplanned and I was able to "mingle" with the staff - probably totally against company policy.
However I was always accompanied by a member of staff and we followed proper procedures.
I never experienced any bad attitudes - in fact, factory floor staff even offered their advice.
This kind of company morale is very difficult to achieve - especially on companies with large numbers of employees.

One such example for me.
It was during our first year.
Our Princess 67 had been delivered and she was in Torquay.
I was fitting my own docking cameras.
I needed to know how to route the wires from new docking cameras back into the system.
The specific issue was how to run them through the ceiling in the cockpit over the patio doors.
I needed to see the construction.
A visit to the assembly line in Newport Street was very helpful.
I was only on the line for a few minutes but the staff were extremely helpful - explaining the various bulkheads and suggesting routes for my wires.
The advice turned out to be excellent and the route for the wires was perfect.
During that visit, we also discussed our specific build - they remembered an order that had to have extra conduits fed through the boat.
That must have been my order because I had ordered an after sales Glass Bridge Nav Systems etc which would have required more conduits.
My point though is that the enthusiasm of the staff actually on the line was extremely positive.

That wasn't the only time - I have been into Newport Street since then as well.
As I say, EVERY time the staff morale has been excellent.
If it have been bad, they wouldn't have been able to cover it up during my impromptu visits.

So, credit where credit is due.
Maybe those extra people in Nick's visit is all part of maintaining a good company attitude.
And, IIRC, remember during Nick's second visit to the woodworking site where they talked to one of the staff - all the same attitude.

As I say, there does seem to be scope for a better managed company but you have to be careful to get the correct attitude when employing large numbers of people.

 

[Bouba]

I've been thinking about some of the comments posted on this thread and I think you have to be careful when running an organisation like Princess.
Yes, I do believe that there is a lot of "fat" that could be slimmed down but you also need to think about company morale.
You don't want a "that will do" attitude - rather, you need a "pride in the product" feeling across the whole company.

I can relate to my own experience of Princess.
It was a long time ago, but I think back to the factory visits that I have done.
After our initial visits to see our actual boat in construction, I have been into the factory a few times since.
Each time, I experienced a very positive attitude amongst the staff.
Some of these visits were unplanned and I was able to "mingle" with the staff - probably totally against company policy.
However I was always accompanied by a member of staff and we followed proper procedures.
I never experienced any bad attitudes - in fact, factory floor staff even offered their advice.
This kind of company morale is very difficult to achieve - especially on companies with large numbers of employees.

One such example for me.
It was during our first year.
Our Princess 67 had been delivered and she was in Torquay.
I was fitting my own docking cameras.
I needed to know how to route the wires from new docking cameras back into the system.
The specific issue was how to run them through the ceiling in the cockpit over the patio doors.
I needed to see the construction.
A visit to the assembly line in Newport Street was very helpful.
I was only on the line for a few minutes but the staff were extremely helpful - explaining the various bulkheads and suggesting routes for my wires.
The advice turned out to be excellent and the route for the wires was perfect.
During that visit, we also discussed our specific build - they remembered an order that had to have extra conduits fed through the boat.
That must have been my order because I had ordered an after sales Glass Bridge Nav Systems etc which would have required more conduits.
My point though is that the enthusiasm of the staff actually on the line was extremely positive.

That wasn't the only time - I have been into Newport Street since then as well.
As I say, EVERY time the staff morale has been excellent.
If it have been bad, they wouldn't have been able to cover it up during my impromptu visits.

So, credit where credit is due.
Maybe those extra people in Nick's visit is all part of maintaining a good company attitude.
And, IIRC, remember during Nick's second visit to the woodworking site where they talked to one of the staff - all the same attitude.

As I say, there does seem to be scope for a better managed company but you have to be careful to get the correct attitude when employing large numbers of people.

I agree....what’s more....these people are craftsmen and women....they have to be treated with respect....

 

[jfm]

I've been thinking about some of the comments posted on this thread and I think you have to be careful when running an organisation like Princess.
Yes, I do believe that there is a lot of "fat" that could be slimmed down but you also need to think about company morale.
You don't want a "that will do" attitude - rather, you need a "pride in the product" feeling across the whole company.

I can relate to my own experience of Princess.
It was a long time ago, but I think back to the factory visits that I have done.
After our initial visits to see our actual boat in construction, I have been into the factory a few times since.
Each time, I experienced a very positive attitude amongst the staff.
Some of these visits were unplanned and I was able to "mingle" with the staff - probably totally against company policy.
However I was always accompanied by a member of staff and we followed proper procedures.
I never experienced any bad attitudes - in fact, factory floor staff even offered their advice.
This kind of company morale is very difficult to achieve - especially on companies with large numbers of employees.

One such example for me.
It was during our first year.
Our Princess 67 had been delivered and she was in Torquay.
I was fitting my own docking cameras.
I needed to know how to route the wires from new docking cameras back into the system.
The specific issue was how to run them through the ceiling in the cockpit over the patio doors.
I needed to see the construction.
A visit to the assembly line in Newport Street was very helpful.
I was only on the line for a few minutes but the staff were extremely helpful - explaining the various bulkheads and suggesting routes for my wires.
The advice turned out to be excellent and the route for the wires was perfect.
During that visit, we also discussed our specific build - they remembered an order that had to have extra conduits fed through the boat.
That must have been my order because I had ordered an after sales Glass Bridge Nav Systems etc which would have required more conduits.
My point though is that the enthusiasm of the staff actually on the line was extremely positive.

That wasn't the only time - I have been into Newport Street since then as well.
As I say, EVERY time the staff morale has been excellent.
If it have been bad, they wouldn't have been able to cover it up during my impromptu visits.

So, credit where credit is due.
Maybe those extra people in Nick's visit is all part of maintaining a good company attitude.
And, IIRC, remember during Nick's second visit to the woodworking site where they talked to one of the staff - all the same attitude.

As I say, there does seem to be scope for a better managed company but you have to be careful to get the correct attitude when employing large numbers of people.

Sure, but that is conflating two separate things. A passionate workforce is great, but it should be as well as not instead of profitability. They are separate things. I assure you the team at sanlorenzo is passionate - I would say more so than the team at Princess, and their pride in the product is justifiably deeper than Princess workers' in my view. Yet they make big profits (€1.3bn mkt cap last time I looked).

But as for 'you don't want a "that will do" attitude,' look again at the cabinet at 3:04 in the video. That won't do, either at the design part of the process, the build/assembly part, or the (lack of) profitability outcome that it contributes to.

 

[Fire99]

Brings back a slight memory - I was in Marina di Olbia when they shot that video.

If you can get over the visual "appeal" of x95 in profile, and look further, this video shows some of the fundamental issues where princess are being delusional. They could appeal to the 30m market, but not if they continue to build boats that feel like stretched 50 footers. Look at the sofas at 2:47 and 8:10 - they look like seats in a train station executive lounge and are totally inappropriate on a €10m boat - sofas have to come from Minotti or someone in that league.

In contrast, the deck furniture works because it is bought in from a premium manufacturer - Cocowolf (who manufacture in Derbyshire, UK, btw).

Then look at the cabinet at 3:04. Leaving aside those awful clickey door knobs, there is not a single door panel/gap that is correct/lined up. It looks like a C grade school woodwork project. Even if the doors were lined up, it is such a disappointing piece of furniture - like an office filing cabinet.

That per se isn't the problem - the problem is that Princess think it's great - they are really delusional about this and until they see that problem nothing's going to change. They need to change their game (including getting new designers) to become serious at this size and price point, and they need to change how they build if they want to make profit. A 5-7 year turnaround project.

I've never hidden that I find the X95 is a jarring boat to look at but I'll give them their dues, the layout and functionality is impressive.
However, the feel of the quality inside, in part (not all) makes me think of the Plus Lounge on Stena Line (which I'm regularly in). Yes, nice electric blinds and mood lighting etc but I agree the cabinet door situation is extremely poor. Reminds me of Ikea display kitchens going way back.


I know they are not alone with the choice of interior materials, no doubt in part due to the sheer cost of quality wood these days, and changing taste but when you consider some of the amazing quality of the joinery on some of the boats of old (some Fairline Squadrons immediately spring to mind and even my Trader), this does not leap out at me as lasting quality.

 

[DAW]

A happy, skilled and committed workforce is only one part of the recipe for long-term success. The business also needs a product placement and pricing strategy that works in the market, the capacity to deliver those products in a cost effective way while meeting customer expectations for quality and performance, a commitment to continuous development of the skills and knowledge of its workforce, and the financial resources to invest in maintaining existing assets and introducing innovative new technologies. It's a virtuous circle, where successful product, pricing and manufacturing strategies lead to improved financial performance, which then creates the headroom for further investment in new products, new facilities and the workforce.

Those that created these businesses understood, but they operated in a different time when boat building was a low-tech, low volume, cottage industry with highly segmented markets and limited international competition. The world has changed and unfortunately some of the investors and "professional" management teams that have followed in the UK builders have either failed to recognise this, or have pursued approaches taken from other industries that have ultimately failed to deliver the expected results.

 

[Tranona]

Brings back a slight memory - I was in Marina di Olbia when they shot that video.

If you can get over the visual "appeal" of x95 in profile, and look further, this video shows some of the fundamental issues where princess are being delusional. They could appeal to the 30m market, but not if they continue to build boats that feel like stretched 50 footers. Look at the sofas at 2:47 and 8:10 - they look like seats in a train station executive lounge and are totally inappropriate on a €10m boat - sofas have to come from Minotti or someone in that league.

In contrast, the deck furniture works because it is bought in from a premium manufacturer - Cocowolf (who manufacture in Derbyshire, UK, btw).

Then look at the cabinet at 3:04. Leaving aside those awful clickey door knobs, there is not a single door panel/gap that is correct/lined up. It looks like a C grade school woodwork project. Even if the doors were lined up, it is such a disappointing piece of furniture - like an office filing cabinet.

That per se isn't the problem - the problem is that Princess think it's great - they are really delusional about this and until they see that problem nothing's going to change. They need to change their game (including getting new designers) to become serious at this size and price point, and they need to change how they build if they want to make profit. A 5-7 year turnaround project.

Could not agree more - particularly that awful cabinet. Not good enough for even the cheapest mass production boat.

The whole attitude does remind me of the Morgan story that briefly made an appearance in this discussion. My car was made during the first period of incremental change - the original basic model but made better by reducing the amount of hand labour and automating some processes. Despite that there was still a lot of hand fettling to merge the accurately made components into the old - wings for example individually fitted. The real spur to making major changes came around that time in 2003 when the Aero 8 came out and they discovered that new buyers spending £55k had very different expectations from the old used to paying not much more than half that like me. It took several years to raise the quality to meet those expectations, and only by going to semi custom limited editions at a much higher price point while keeping the old designs refreshed and the prices down. All changed now as the new owners have made a big leap into building a modern car that looks the same as the old but with a price tag that is around 40% higher in real terms than the old.

It is all about understanding customer expectations and how far one can push a brand. Making the product in such a way that the business is profitable is a challenge and needs a very clear vision, difficult to know what that is in these uncertain times.

 

[Bouba]

Do people here no longer regard Princess as a premium brand ?

 

[jfm]

Do people here no longer regard Princess as a premium brand ?

Definitely a premium brand imho but in car terms (never a great analogy) they are along the line of Mercedes. Above Renault but below Rolls Royce.

They are also in the "pack" with Sunseeker and (in smaller sizes) Fairline. All those three think they are the best of the three but of course the truth is that none of them has ever pulled away from the pack.

Cars only come in one size whereas boats come in any size. The premium brand status of Princess is only up to 24m. They are an inferior brand at 24m+ and they shouldn't be wasting money (again) in the 30-40m market. The brand has absolutely no premium status at 30m and the ghastly looks (in many people's opinion) of X95 work against them. Sure, a few customers (4?) per year buy a x95 but everyone else in that purchasing bracket just looks on in horror, resulting in damage to the brand imho.

 

[markc]

Could not agree more - particularly that awful cabinet. Not good enough for even the cheapest mass production boat.

The whole attitude does remind me of the Morgan story that briefly made an appearance in this discussion. My car was made during the first period of incremental change - the original basic model but made better by reducing the amount of hand labour and automating some processes. Despite that there was still a lot of hand fettling to merge the accurately made components into the old - wings for example individually fitted. The real spur to making major changes came around that time in 2003 when the Aero 8 came out and they discovered that new buyers spending £55k had very different expectations from the old used to paying not much more than half that like me. It took several years to raise the quality to meet those expectations, and only by going to semi custom limited editions at a much higher price point while keeping the old designs refreshed and the prices down. All changed now as the new owners have made a big leap into building a modern car that looks the same as the old but with a price tag that is around 40% higher in real terms than the old.

It is all about understanding customer expectations and how far one can push a brand. Making the product in such a way that the business is profitable is a challenge and needs a very clear vision, difficult to know what that is in these uncertain times.

Whilst I agree with JFM that car comparisons with boats can be misleading, (plus being the one that brought up the TV programme with JHJ and Morgan), the "being made in a bunch of old sheds the way it's always been done" of Morgan also reminded me of my early 90s car buying. Single and carefree I bought 4 new TVRs, from a humble S3 to a Cerbera. At the time I knew they had their shortcomings being handbuilt in a shed in Blackpool, but they looked and sounded great and they were cheap. The fact they were cheap meant I was OK to overlook the odd breakdown, switches falling off, getting locked out etc., as to me, that was part of the deal. However, I moved away from the brand when I'd had enough of the breakdowns and the price hikes. It made going for a more expensive Porsche or XKR a much easier decision. These cars might have lacked some of the individualism of TVR, but they worked properly and their build quality was considerably better. TVR continued down their own path into bankruptcy, as did many lovely 'shed built' car brands.

 

[Shifty]

Whilst I agree with JFM that car comparisons with boats can be misleading, (plus being the one that brought up the TV programme with JHJ and Morgan), the "being made in a bunch of old sheds the way it's always been done" of Morgan also reminded me of my early 90s car buying. Single and carefree I bought 4 new TVRs, from a humble S3 to a Cerbera. At the time I knew they had their shortcomings being handbuilt in a shed in Blackpool, but they looked and sounded great and they were cheap. The fact they were cheap meant I was OK to overlook the odd breakdown, switches falling off, getting locked out etc., as to me, that was part of the deal. However, I moved away from the brand when I'd had enough of the breakdowns and the price hikes. It made going for a more expensive Porsche or XKR a much easier decision. These cars might have lacked some of the individualism of TVR, but they worked properly and their build quality was considerably better. TVR continued down their own path into bankruptcy, as did many lovely 'shed built' car brands.

Agee with all the above, I’ve travelled the same road, but when I see a Griffith today l remember those heady days visiting the factory and the pleasure that was had in the following couple of years, but as said the price point enabled me to overlook the occasional failures. Wether I’d feel the same if I’d dropped a couple of million on boat l’m not sure.

 

[Bouba]

Agee with all the above, I’ve travelled the same road, but when I see a Griffith today l remember those heady days visiting the factory and the pleasure that was had in the following couple of years, but as said the price point enabled me to overlook the occasional failures. Wether I’d feel the same if I’d dropped a couple of million on boat l’m not sure.

Are Princesses unreliable as well ?

 

[Shifty]

Are Princesses unreliable as well ?

Probably not a good analogy, thinking more about the comments ref fit and finish.

 

[Bouba]

There is an upside....although it’s not a profitable business...it does provide a lot of employment and money in an economically depressed area....and it has a loyal customer base....the product sells