Princess Factory visit by Aquaholic

[Tranona]

Probably not a good analogy, thinking more about the comments ref fit and finish.

Yes, that is the point. Hand building to a budget picking parts mainly out of other manufacturers' parts bins does not lead to the coherence and consistency you get with more mass production or high end custom building.

You see the same in boats. My "cheap" Bavaria sailing boat was virtually faultess from new and nothing went wrong in the 6 years I owned it, just like all the new Fords I have owned. This is partly because the ambitions are modest and well done using mass production methods. On the other hand the more complex "quality" boats invariably need far more commissioning and trials before handing over to owners.

 

[doug748]

Yes, that is the point. Hand building to a budget picking parts mainly out of other manufacturers' parts bins does not lead to the coherence and consistency you get with more mass production or high end custom building.

You see the same in boats. My "cheap" Bavaria sailing boat was virtually faultess from new and nothing went wrong in the 6 years I owned it, just like all the new Fords I have owned. This is partly because the ambitions are modest and well done using mass production methods. On the other hand the more complex "quality" boats invariably need far more commissioning and trials before handing over to owners.

Were you not a development engineer with British Seagull? No need to elaborate on that.

Some of the comment on this thread is risible.

.

 

[Tranona]

Were you not a development engineer with British Seagull? No need to elaborate on that.

Some of the comment on this thread is risible.

.

No I was the marketing manager, although in a small company like that one got involved in all aspects. We were developing (or trying to) a range of new engines which meant lots of trial and error both in the test tanks and on the water. Many of the test hours on the 110 model (with reverse gear!) were on my then boat a Seawych.

Some in the company saw the future as the Morgan model of lower production and higher prices. However the coming of the small Japanese motors and crucially legislation particularly environmental were the crucial game changers. After I left my predictions of a massive fall in demand did happen and by default it ended up under new ownership going the route of small scale production until legislation finally killed 2 strokes.

Seagull was a product of its times and very successful. In 1977 the year I joined it sold 26000 engines to 80+ countries and was very profitable. But the world changed and there was no place for the core product.

 

[ari]

Whilst I agree with JFM that car comparisons with boats can be misleading, (plus being the one that brought up the TV programme with JHJ and Morgan), the "being made in a bunch of old sheds the way it's always been done" of Morgan also reminded me of my early 90s car buying. Single and carefree I bought 4 new TVRs, from a humble S3 to a Cerbera. At the time I knew they had their shortcomings being handbuilt in a shed in Blackpool, but they looked and sounded great and they were cheap. The fact they were cheap meant I was OK to overlook the odd breakdown, switches falling off, getting locked out etc., as to me, that was part of the deal. However, I moved away from the brand when I'd had enough of the breakdowns and the price hikes. It made going for a more expensive Porsche or XKR a much easier decision. These cars might have lacked some of the individualism of TVR, but they worked properly and their build quality was considerably better. TVR continued down their own path into bankruptcy, as did many lovely 'shed built' car brands.

I can totally see your point regarding TVR and the shortcomings in comparison with Porsche etc, but I can't see the relevance to British boat building. TVR were completely left behind with regards to technology, everything from navigation to air bags to even anti lock braking! They simply didn't have the size or money to develop the things that the market increasingly wanted or legislation demanded, and they didn't have the quality of build required either (as you, yourself, attest).

None of that is the case with the 'big three' British builders. You can criticise the company set up perhaps, and I certainly agree with JFM regarding the 30M and up superyacht market (there's a reason the much vaulted Sunseeker 161 never appeared). But I really don't think that suggestions of woeful quality or falling massively behind with regards to technology (à la TVR) are remotely justified, are they?

 

[markc]

I can totally see your point regarding TVR and the shortcomings in comparison with Porsche etc, but I can't see the relevance to British boat building. TVR were completely left behind with regards to technology, everything from navigation to air bags to even anti lock braking! They simply didn't have the size or money to develop the things that the market increasingly wanted or legislation demanded, and they didn't have the quality of build required either (as you, yourself, attest).

None of that is the case with the 'big three' British builders. You can criticise the company set up perhaps, and I certainly agree with JFM regarding the 30M and up superyacht market (there's a reason the much vaulted Sunseeker 161 never appeared). But I really don't think that suggestions of woeful quality or falling massively behind with regards to technology (à la TVR) are remotely justified, are they?

Analogies like this are not meant to provide a robust argument, especially when comparing very different industries, and I thought that was a given. However, my point was, back in the day Princess built less sophisticated boats for a UK market from a bunch of sheds. Their competition were doing something similar. Over the years, due to many factors, British yards fell one by one. They got left behind for many reasons, but I suspect it wasn't because they were building bad boats, they were just building them in a way that didn't make a profit. Princess are selling boats, but they haven't made a profit for years. They are clearly not doing it right, as many have discussed here, and this surely cannot be sustainable ad infinitum, hence at some point the wheels will fall off. That would be a massive shame.

 

[ari]

Analogies like this are not meant to provide a robust argument, especially when comparing very different industries, and I thought that was a given. However, my point was, back in the day Princess built less sophisticated boats for a UK market from a bunch of sheds. Their competition were doing something similar. Over the years, due to many factors, British yards fell one by one. They got left behind for many reasons, but I suspect it wasn't because they were building bad boats, they were just building them in a way that didn't make a profit. Princess are selling boats, but they haven't made a profit for years. They are clearly not doing it right, as many have discussed here, and this surely cannot be sustainable ad infinitum, hence at some point the wheels will fall off. That would be a massive shame.

So absolutely nothing at all like the woes that befell TVR then (poor quality products compared to their competitors and an inability to develop the sophisticated specifications demanded by consumers and legislation).