Princess crashes into Richmond Bridge

[oceanfroggie]

Hope not too much damage was done...

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/16/river...est-london-despite-the-great-weather-4608626/

I feel for him. What a shame. The current didn't look particularly strong. At the start of the video (we don't know if that was before any contact), she seemed ok almost parrallel to the flow and should have been able to reverse at least 100m up stream before attempting to turn her broadside to the current. It easy here without the stress of the situation to make armchair comments, but unfortunately I suspect stress and understandable panic compounded the situation. Ironically it looked like she might have fitted under the bridge centre arch anyway. When approaching low bridges the clearance always looks less than it is.

 

[Observer]

So what's the answer?

How about turning round before the bridge, and reversing through with the engines going forward?
That would give him time to stem the flow and inch through very slowly.
Or am I missing something?

If you really had to get through right then, then yes, I think that gives some decent control with ability to make a go around if the approach is not working out. Also makes it easier to assess the clearance.

That size of boat certainly has bow and stern thrusters so as long as the bow is not allowed to fall off, then combined with asymmetric use of main engines, that all gives fairly good control bow and stern even in strong current as long as decent co-ordination of the control inputs is maintained. I still wouldn't want to do it though because as soon as you get close to the bridge there are likely to be unpredictable eddies and currents from the piers that could shift the bow or stern one way or the other and rapidly overwhelm the control co-ordination / spatial awareness.

The way he tried to do it gave no safety margin whatsoever and I can't see how the boat was in any serious way 'controlled' through the water at that speed over the ground. That may be acceptable if you have the safety margin of a decent clearance, but he didn't.

I hope that I would have decided to moor up and wait for the level to drop off a bit.

 

[Hurricane]

Its a 67 as in one in the photos shows it written on the radar arch.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...nto-richmond-bridge_n_4975357.html?1394991943

Ooooo
So it is!!

 

[[2068]]

It made me cringe hearing the crunching fibreglass. If only he'd carried on astern for another 30 seconds before trying to turn he might have got away with it.

If you watch the video, at about 20s in he's making good progress astern, but a smaller cruiser approaches from the rear, comes close, see's what's happening, and does a U-Turn. The Princess stops going astern quite possibly because he has seen the smaller boat, and from that point in, the stern is caught by the current, and it's "game over".

 

[MarieK]

When he is broadside to the bridge and pinned against it, would bow and stern thrusters have been powerful enough to push him off alone?

 

[oceanfroggie]

When he is broadside to the bridge and pinned against it, would bow and stern thrusters have been powerful enough to push him off alone?

Unfortunately not with the moderate flow

 

[oceanfroggie]

Two YouTube links

Part 1 http://youtu.be/PIiXndllxIQ
Part 2 http://youtu.be/GulYaobJgVI

Having re looked at part 1 it looks like he was sizing it up for clearance, the situation was stable but he simply attempted to turn too soon (ie instead of backing up 100m).

 

[[2068]]

When he is broadside to the bridge and pinned against it, would bow and stern thrusters have been powerful enough to push him off alone?

Most probably not.
Being pinned to something solid by a moderate current would be an extremely difficult situation to extract yourself from without causing substantial damage.

 

[MarieK]

In video 1 as he was backing out - I wonder did he see the small boat astern of him and stop going astern for fear of hitting the small boat?

 

[Hurricane]

So what's the answer?

How about turning round before the bridge, and reversing through with the engines going forward?
That would give him time to stem the flow and inch through very slowly.
Or am I missing something?

If you mean turn the boat stern into the current, Peter, I agree.
However, it seems to me that any river current current is in the same direction that he is going (in other words from behind)

In this situation, I like to "hang on the props"
That means hold position with the bow pointing down the stream (whichever way it is actually flowing)
Then, you can always "bail out" by reversing back up.
Way back years ago on my PB2 we learned very quickly to ALWAYS have an escape route.

IMO, this guy was too dependent on his thrusters - it almost seems that he was trying to turn the boat using them just before he hit the bridge

And where are the crew
And where are the fenders - I'd have every fender on board deployed for something like that.
That is a VERY tight bridge though and I probably wouldn't attempt it
If I had to there would be a big brown patch on the helm seat after.

Thinking about it, though, I have a mentality of "if there is going to be a crash - I'd go for a slow crash"
So, maybe some very slow handling/fendering would see her through.
Still think twice about it though

 

[[2068]]

In video 1 as he was backing out - I wonder did he see the small boat astern of him and stop going astern for fear of hitting the small boat?

That was my thought as well ... see above.

 

[Hurricane]

Most probably not.
Being pinned to something solid by a moderate current would be an extremely difficult situation to extract yourself from without causing substantial damage.

The thrusters on our P67 can just about hold us parallel to the wind in a F5 but ours are upgraded ones (bit more powerful than the standards ones)

So, in this case, IMO after he had pinned himself sideways against the bridge, going hard on both thrusters for a good 30 secs should have got him well clear.
But the key would be to have kept the stern into the current all the time and "crab" the across the river.

 

[U4]

Most probably not.
Being pinned to something solid by a moderate current would be an extremely difficult situation to extract yourself from without causing substantial damage.

Agreed, and with the added pressure of literally 100's of people watching, maintaining rational thinking probably wasn’t that easy. I really feel for him, must have been horrible..

 

[Observer]

The thrusters on our P67 can just about hold us parallel to the wind in a F5 but ours are upgraded ones (bit more powerful than the standards ones)

So, in this case, IMO after he had pinned himself sideways against the bridge, going hard on both thrusters for a good 30 secs should have got him well clear.
But the key would be to have kept the stern into the current all the time and "crab" the across the river.

Do you mean "parallel to the wind" or "perpendicular to the wind"? I wonder how the force of a F5 wind on that topsides profile compares to the force of a (say) 4kt current? Any idea/guess on that.

 

[Hurricane]

Do you mean "parallel to the wind" or "perpendicular to the wind"? I wonder how the force of a F5 wind on that topsides profile compares to the force of a (say) 4kt current? Any idea/guess on that.

I mean sideways into the wind
On slack water with no wind a 3o sec squirt of both thrusters should move the boat a couple of boat lengths and once moving, the momentum should keep her going for a further two lengths.
30 seconds is a good squirt - if I was going to use the thruster for this kind of thing, I would really use then with assertion.
A boat like that is close to 50 tons so getting it moving sideways through the water takes a good blast of the thrusters - no point "tickling them"

 

[Nick_H]

The thrusters on our P67 can just about hold us parallel to the wind in a F5 but ours are upgraded ones (bit more powerful than the standards ones)

So, in this case, IMO after he had pinned himself sideways against the bridge, going hard on both thrusters for a good 30 secs should have got him well clear.
But the key would be to have kept the stern into the current all the time and "crab" the across the river.

I doubt you'd be able to go over 4 knots sideways on just your thrusters Mike? Also, if the river is flowing 4 knots, it'll be quite a lot faster through the arches and around the bridge supports. Once he's pinned there, I think he either needs towing off, or will be washed through the arches, as eventually happened.

He was initially going through fine, but obviously decided there wasn't enough height. As others have said, the problem started when he didn't reverse far enough upstream before he tried to turn

 

[Observer]

I mean sideways into the wind
On slack water with no wind a 3o sec squirt of both thrusters should move the boat a couple of boat lengths and once moving, the momentum should keep her going for a further two lengths.
30 seconds is a good squirt - if I was going to use the thruster for this kind of thing, I would really use then with assertion.
A boat like that is close to 50 tons so getting it moving sideways through the water takes a good blast of the thrusters - no point "tickling them"

Yes indeed. As long as the batteries (dedicated batteries probably) are up to delivering the power and the system can handle the current without blowing the fuse. Hydraulic thrusters avoid that of course but from the sound of it this boat didn't have them.

Also, prolonged use of thrusters, especially both together, makes a fair bit of noise (sounds worse from the boat) and if (as skipper) you're struggling to keep control, particularly with an audience watching, you will shy away from drawing attention to your plight by making a lot of noise.

I feel a lot of sympathy for the skipper in this case - I've found plenty of ways to get things wrong on the boat handling side of things - but that is no reason for anyone to be in any doubt that what was attempted here, and the way it was attempted, was, imo, extremely ill-advised. It didn't need much to go wrong (and it did) to end up in a really bad place with no good way of getting out of it.

 

[Observer]

I doubt you'd be able to go over 4 knots sideways on just your thrusters Mike? Also, if the river is flowing 4 knots, it'll be quite a lot faster through the arches and around the bridge supports. Once he's pinned there, I think he either needs towing off, or will be washed through the arches, as eventually happened.

He was initially going through fine, but obviously decided there wasn't enough height. As others have said, the problem started when he didn't reverse far enough upstream before he tried to turn

Yes agreed and rule #1 when turning is to give yourself plenty of turning room.

Actually even then he nearly got away with it. I think she was turning quite well until he got her dead abeam the flow and then he paused, perhaps intending to drive away on the engines (which I think he could have done if he'd been really decisive). But it looks to me as though he hesitated, perhaps to assess the situation; that's when the current caught the stern and the bow and he was done for. If he had kept that swing going he may just have made it.

 

[Andy Bav]

Do you mean "parallel to the wind" or "perpendicular to the wind"? I wonder how the force of a F5 wind on that topsides profile compares to the force of a (say) 4kt current? Any idea/guess on that.

We were taught that as a rule of thumb, every 4 knots of wind speed equates to rougly 1 knot of current

 

[jrudge]

I used to keep my last boat in Brentford dock and the current can be really quick. Which made it very difficult to get into the lock.

What annoys me is that on the video several small and manoeuvrable boats were nearby / passing ( one an ex police launch) and no one thought to go over, throw a line and help drag him off / stabilise the position.

Whatever the sport of the matter the thing is worth about £2m and the bloke would have benefited from some help I would have thought. The damage will be extensive I would imagine given the number of times it hit.

We were in a Mallorca marina this summer and a sail boat made a total **** of it. Did we sit and take a video. Did we **** we jumped up and sorted it out.

You can here some thames cruiser now " don't look dear, nothing to do with us".

If their boat was sinking and the Princess went past and did nothing can you imagine the outcry. "Snob leaves pleb to sink" or similar.