MapisM
Well-Known Member
LOL, you start saying that I'm wrong, but as jfm already spotted/explained perfectly, what you write afterwards is exactly what I meant... :encouragement:
Princess are on a marketing roll
- Thread starter henryf
- Start date
henryf
Well-Known Member
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I don't know if you've read Micha's (Michaf's) searticle article in this months MB & Y yet, it's the stuff of dreams. He's the luckiest man to experience what he does, in truth we all are and it's our boats that allow us to do that.
How incredible to be surrounded by such wilderness yet cosseted in such luxury. Air conditioning, fresh water, wood, leather, fabric, comfort, sustenance and safety.
A good boat builder isn't just gluing or welding stuff together they are creating opportunity.
Henry
I don't know if you've read Micha's (Michaf's) searticle article in this months MB & Y yet, it's the stuff of dreams. He's the luckiest man to experience what he does, in truth we all are and it's our boats that allow us to do that.
How incredible to be surrounded by such wilderness yet cosseted in such luxury. Air conditioning, fresh water, wood, leather, fabric, comfort, sustenance and safety.
A good boat builder isn't just gluing or welding stuff together they are creating opportunity.
Henry
Time Out
Well-Known Member
But a number of owners on here are already qualified and therefore have no need to be marketed to via the customer mag.
It's about a solid database and relationships. The rest is just fluff.
It's about a solid database and relationships. The rest is just fluff.
henryf
Well-Known Member
It would cost more to establish who may or may not need marketing to via the magazine than just sending it out to everyone on the back of MB & Y. That exercise was almost free of charge, the equivalent to making a cup of tea when someone walks into your showroom.
Imagine if the magazine covered owners like Micha using their boats in amongst details of new models. Inspiration to plan your next trip or purchase if you haven't already done so. A review of some recent cruises in company, maybe some technical tips. Pretend that the content really appealed to you. What would that content be?
I know the boats have to be well designed and built, databases maintained, shows attended, invites sent out but the question is what else? The magazine has been dismissed, in some cases by people who on their own admission are not in a position to ever consider making a purchase. Let's imagine hypothetically that the "no need to market" camp are wrong. How should manufacturers market ?
Henry
Time Out
Well-Known Member
And the ones who have dismissed it are mostly the ones who are unqualified buyers.
It would have been far from cheap doing this exercise trust me.
It's a nice to have and it's a touch point with customers as for the content well I just flicked through it and counted a max of three relatively weak boating features.
I am a bit confused as to what it's trying to be if I am honest. I think I can see the editorial proposition but I can find that, if I choose, at smiths.
Still it's something different and it's their £ s paying for it and a relatively new chap at the marketing helm.
Cheap it ain't though , I know for a fact that some customer mags can be upwards of 300k a year ...
It would have been far from cheap doing this exercise trust me.
It's a nice to have and it's a touch point with customers as for the content well I just flicked through it and counted a max of three relatively weak boating features.
I am a bit confused as to what it's trying to be if I am honest. I think I can see the editorial proposition but I can find that, if I choose, at smiths.
Still it's something different and it's their £ s paying for it and a relatively new chap at the marketing helm.
Cheap it ain't though , I know for a fact that some customer mags can be upwards of 300k a year ...
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think we are, H. Just consider what you are saying:
1) Micha is lucky to do what he does - not to merely own a boat.
2) Boat builders create opportunities - but opportunities per se aren't a "luxury" by any stretch of imagination: they are, ermm... just opportunities.
If you accept what boatbuilders want us to believe, i.e. that the opportunity is a luxury in itself, you could as well leave your money in a bank account, because that's also an opportunity - and arguably a more flexible one.
In the recent years, the used boat market has been flooded with perfectly good boats, sold at very sensible prices, sometimes abandoned and left completely unused.
Now, try to explain to their owners that those boats are "their luxury", if you can.
I guess you might think that at the end of the day what I'm saying is just a matter of semantic, but it isn't.
The idea that luxury (or happiness, pleasure, whatever - call it as you prefer) can be bought is just a brilliant example to use when trying to explain to someone what the expression "wishful thinking" means.
It's all in what you do, not in what you own, as Fromm teached us 40 years ago.
And even if I don't know exactly what Micha does, it's easy to guess that you don't need a Princess (nor any other brand new and "luxurious" boat, for that matter) to do the same...
jfm
Well-Known Member
But they really ARE just gluing and welding stuff together. "Creating opportunity" is just marketing fluff for, in this case, gluing and welding. Others do the rest. Which is perfectly fine of course.
If your theory were correct there would be no differentiating of Princess from any other brand. The opportunity to have a nice day out and break bread with friends etc is the same whether on a Princess, Azimut, whoever. It's not like your friends will come to see you if you have a Princess but not if you have an Azimut. So the only rational reason to choose a Princess is that they do the gluing and welding the way you like it or at a lower price/better availability than competitors, for there cannot be any difference in the "luxury opportunity" compared with a competitor brand.
henryf
Well-Known Member
Using your argument surely nothing tangible on the planet can be called a luxury item then. That exquisite piece of Jewelry is merely some shiny stones clamped onto a bit of metal sitting in a drawer or worse still a bank vault. A necklace from Garrards is the same as one from Ratners, H Samuel or Ernest Jones all be it some will be more or less expensive.
I'm not trying to argue on some deep intellectual level here. I'm quite happy to swim in the sea of gullibility and accept marketing for what it is. If my definition of luxury is wrong then so be it. I'm told that the 2 happiest days of boat ownership are the day you buy and the day you sell. For me that's not the case, I genuinely get excited at the thought of spending time on board. A decent trip out is a real treat on so many levels. So how do you best think someone like Princess should engage with mugs like me beyond boat shows, emails and advertising in MB & Y ?
Henry
I'm not trying to argue on some deep intellectual level here. I'm quite happy to swim in the sea of gullibility and accept marketing for what it is. If my definition of luxury is wrong then so be it. I'm told that the 2 happiest days of boat ownership are the day you buy and the day you sell. For me that's not the case, I genuinely get excited at the thought of spending time on board. A decent trip out is a real treat on so many levels. So how do you best think someone like Princess should engage with mugs like me beyond boat shows, emails and advertising in MB & Y ?
Henry
Time Out
Well-Known Member
Boat porn ... That's why you all come here.
Inform and engage
Plus free booze.
Inform and engage
Plus free booze.
jfm
Well-Known Member
No, we've drifted a bit here. Sure a Bentley or something from Graff is a "luxury item" as is a nice boat including a Princess. But my original comment was on Princess's strap line "our knowledge is your luxury". Sure I'm happy if Princess can make me a luxury boat, and if that's all they meant to say then great, and we're all done. As I explained though, #57, I read their claim as going beyond that and that is all my comments here relate to: they should build luxurious boats but not claim anything beyond that. IMHO.
:encouragement:
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
What on earth does that mean ? All the qualification you need is to rock up with the cash
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I'm told that the 2 happiest days of boat ownership are the day you buy and the day you sell. For me that's not the case, I genuinely get excited at the thought of spending time on board. A decent trip out is a real treat on so many levels
Henry
+100
But I ,am coming from ripping up the sea in an Itama in the SoF , ghosting past other s slamming .
So for me -like you the - buying /selling is --- low down compared to using
Time Out
Well-Known Member
At which point you are officially on the database.
Cold purchasers are exceptionally rare. Dont believe the bull stories of people rocking up to boat show stands dressed like at tramp only to walk of with a million quids worth of plastic ...
Cold purchasers are exceptionally rare. Dont believe the bull stories of people rocking up to boat show stands dressed like at tramp only to walk of with a million quids worth of plastic ...
henryf
Well-Known Member
I too am not over enamoured by the strap line. It's a bit British, by which I mean crap
I've always felt a bit embarrassed by it.If you have to use anything I would have something eluding to the possibilities afforded to the owner of such a fine vessel.
Whilst the cold purchase may not happen here, I don't know, they most certainly happen overseas. I was at the Singapore boat show and it was very difficult to read some of the Asian customers. They really do buy a 70 or 80 foot first boat.
I've just been changing the luxury toilet seat on one of our thrones. It's the second one to crack. Not an impossible task until you drop one of the small nuts inside the hollow core of the China bowl and have to remove the whole lot to tip it upside down at which point it pops out
In hindsight I have found a much quicker way to swap the seats. Just living the dream
Henry
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Arriving late to this thread I really don't have any answers but do have a question, which is why so much lifestyle marketing is directed at people who have just bought this very product and might well be unlikely to buy it again at least for a while.
For example, Christophorous is a perfectly nice magazine with many features which are also in the paid-for sector. The last one I saw had a feature on the new 911R, almost indistinguishable from the similar articles in GTPorsche and in 911 & Porsche World. But whilst a limited edition might be aspirational and reading about such a thing might well encourage the general marque enthusiast to buy another Porsche, will it really encourage the recent buyer, in receipt of Christophorous, to do so?
I may well be 180 degrees out, but I think it is the same annoying thing as Microsoft perpetrates when it helps you find the things you most recently looked at, which are often the last items you now want to see.
I suppose that it is difficult for manufacturers in the luxury sectors to know to whom else they might profitably send promotional material and that recent buyers have, at least, demonstrated both a concrete interest and the wherewithal to satisfy it. Hence they form the target audience and, if the cost of the lifestyle product can be mitigated with cross-sector advertising then it probably produces a benefit to the manufacturer.
Is there a better way, though?
For example, Christophorous is a perfectly nice magazine with many features which are also in the paid-for sector. The last one I saw had a feature on the new 911R, almost indistinguishable from the similar articles in GTPorsche and in 911 & Porsche World. But whilst a limited edition might be aspirational and reading about such a thing might well encourage the general marque enthusiast to buy another Porsche, will it really encourage the recent buyer, in receipt of Christophorous, to do so?
I may well be 180 degrees out, but I think it is the same annoying thing as Microsoft perpetrates when it helps you find the things you most recently looked at, which are often the last items you now want to see.
I suppose that it is difficult for manufacturers in the luxury sectors to know to whom else they might profitably send promotional material and that recent buyers have, at least, demonstrated both a concrete interest and the wherewithal to satisfy it. Hence they form the target audience and, if the cost of the lifestyle product can be mitigated with cross-sector advertising then it probably produces a benefit to the manufacturer.
Is there a better way, though?
petem
Well-Known Member
Just re-read this thread and wanted to comment on a few things.
In an earlier post, JFM complains about the "me too" or "look at me" angle that boat marketers seem to hone in on. But perhaps some owners behaviour encourages this. There are many example of owners choosing the flashiest colours (black / gold hulls and the like). And to a lesser extent, underwater lights & illuminated boat names. Now I'm sure that when JFM put these on his boat it was largely due to an admiration of the engineering, the aeshetics, a little bit of practicality and of course becuase it's fun. The element of "look at me" is far less than the marketers realise (I suspect that even JFM has a little bit of "look at me" in him, as do most motorboaters - apart from MapisM obviously).
Regarding the "our experience is your luxury" strap line, I suspect what Princess are trying to say is that their experience enables them to build luxurious boats, which 99.9% of the population will agree with - JFM aside. If the strap line was "luxury through experience" then I doubt we'd be having this conversation. The problem is, paraphrasing "our experience enables us to build luxury boats" has ended up with something that's very presumptions and rather patronising. Was this clumsiness or arrogance, I don't know. Coincidentally, I have an old Fairline brochure on my desk and one of their old strap lines was "more than skin deep", which I still think works. Anyhow, I'm not keen on strap lines per se so on the front a Princess brochure I'd simply put "Princess Yachts - Established 1966".
On the subject of heritage, Princess have been pushing this heavily with the Project 31. Incidentally, Fairline did something similar with a Family 19 a few years ago. The boat was shipped to Florida where the dealer still uses it!
I like all that Princess Art Deco stuff and indeed the ad that most caught my eye in the infamous Princess magazine was for Pullman Posters. I can overlook the fact that that Deco is 30's. I also really like the heritage page http://www.princess.co.uk/about-us/princess-yachts-heritage/. One thing that's always puzzled me a little is why the PMYS web site is so big and seems to duplicate much of the Princess Yachts site. Of course all this heritage stuff is something that new Fairline will be had to emulate.
Anyhow, great thread Henry, even if it's not what you were expecting. And nothing can take away the fact that Princess build great boats.
In an earlier post, JFM complains about the "me too" or "look at me" angle that boat marketers seem to hone in on. But perhaps some owners behaviour encourages this. There are many example of owners choosing the flashiest colours (black / gold hulls and the like). And to a lesser extent, underwater lights & illuminated boat names. Now I'm sure that when JFM put these on his boat it was largely due to an admiration of the engineering, the aeshetics, a little bit of practicality and of course becuase it's fun. The element of "look at me" is far less than the marketers realise (I suspect that even JFM has a little bit of "look at me" in him, as do most motorboaters - apart from MapisM obviously).
Regarding the "our experience is your luxury" strap line, I suspect what Princess are trying to say is that their experience enables them to build luxurious boats, which 99.9% of the population will agree with - JFM aside. If the strap line was "luxury through experience" then I doubt we'd be having this conversation. The problem is, paraphrasing "our experience enables us to build luxury boats" has ended up with something that's very presumptions and rather patronising. Was this clumsiness or arrogance, I don't know. Coincidentally, I have an old Fairline brochure on my desk and one of their old strap lines was "more than skin deep", which I still think works. Anyhow, I'm not keen on strap lines per se so on the front a Princess brochure I'd simply put "Princess Yachts - Established 1966".
On the subject of heritage, Princess have been pushing this heavily with the Project 31. Incidentally, Fairline did something similar with a Family 19 a few years ago. The boat was shipped to Florida where the dealer still uses it!
I like all that Princess Art Deco stuff and indeed the ad that most caught my eye in the infamous Princess magazine was for Pullman Posters. I can overlook the fact that that Deco is 30's. I also really like the heritage page http://www.princess.co.uk/about-us/princess-yachts-heritage/. One thing that's always puzzled me a little is why the PMYS web site is so big and seems to duplicate much of the Princess Yachts site. Of course all this heritage stuff is something that new Fairline will be had to emulate.
Anyhow, great thread Henry, even if it's not what you were expecting. And nothing can take away the fact that Princess build great boats.
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ari
Well-Known Member
It's possibly worth mentioning that Princess Yachts (the builder) doesn't have the strapline 'Our Knowledge is your luxury'.
Have a look on their web site - the only thing they have purporting to a strapline is 'Crafted in Plymouth, England', which actualy isn't that far from your suggestion (albeit, it focusses on location rather than how long they've been established).
The 'Our knowledge is your luxury' strapline is from one of their dealers.
petem
Well-Known Member
Fair enough but that would beg the question of whether the factory / distributor have enough control over their dealers and how they portray the brand.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yeah P, but that's just because Adonis is my second name, you know.
Who needs a flashy boat, when even Greek goddesses fight to spend their time with you...?
Not sure it's a good idea, 'cause there's an IT builder who already did that, with a date - believe it or not - which is some FIVE CENTURIES earlier!
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Now that is worrying