PRINCESS 52 - Joystick or bow/stern thrusters?

[Nick_H]

This joystick system is quite new I think, and based on the responses on here most people wouldn't spec it on a new boat, so maybe Princess just don't have a boat fitted with it for the OP to try. That's not being awkward or unhelpful, it's just explaining the facts.

I'd guess from his username that the OP has recently bought a new boat from them, so they know he's not a time waster, and with the potential of a V52 sale I think they'd jump at the chance to set up a trial if they could

 

[2013PrincessV39]

This joystick system is quite new I think, and based on the responses on here most people wouldn't spec it on a new boat, so maybe Princess just don't have a boat fitted with it for the OP to try. That's not being awkward or unhelpful, it's just explaining the facts.

I'd guess from his username that the OP has recently bought a new boat from them, so they know he's not a time waster, and with the potential of a V52 sale I think they'd jump at the chance to set up a trial if they could

Being a repeat customer as you mentioned, that's why it is so frustrating that we can't get the trial of the variable bow/stern as it would basically be the decider on the purchase.

I have to agree with Henry that to deposit on a boat without a test is something very new to me and my family of bi-yearly car buyers.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Being a repeat customer as you mentioned, that's why it is so frustrating that we can't get the trial of the variable bow/stern as it would basically be the decider on the purchase.

I have to agree with Henry that to deposit on a boat without a test is something very new to me and my family of bi-yearly car buyers.

Hi

Im sure you've seen this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zvscb761hbg

'Factory fitted by princess'
'Regardless of wind and tide'

Hmmmm

And I agree With Nick above, it could well be that there are none to demonstrate and the dealer is not being deliberately obtuse...it's just not the way I would deal with this situation, especially with a client and deposit in hand.

 

[Jack Haines]

This is an interesting thread as many of the new boats we test now have the option to fit a joystick to a non-pod boat and I'm aways intrigued as to what the take up might be like.

From what I recall of these joystick systems that I've used - the one I remember most clearly is Sunseeker's JLS unit - you still have independent control of the engines and thrusters via the throttles (obviously) and the usual separate control for the bow and stern thrusters. Is this the case with the 52? If so, you get the best of both worlds.

Also, the way these systems work is so totally different to the way pods work that you don't face the same potential issues of windage affecting the potency of the system because there is no vectoring of sterndrives to be done, this joystick system uses the same equipment you would have without the the stick (shafts and thruster) but focuses all the functionality into a joystick. The behavior will be totally different to a sterndrive joystick boat which, in my experience, is less effective than IPS anyway.

I'm not for or against the joystick, just some observations. Either way, the 52 is a lovely boat.

 

[henryf]

Being a repeat customer as you mentioned, that's why it is so frustrating that we can't get the trial of the variable bow/stern as it would basically be the decider on the purchase.

I have to agree with Henry that to deposit on a boat without a test is something very new to me and my family of bi-yearly car buyers.

Just to clarify things having seen the video.

You can spin the P52 round on its own axis using the engines very easily. I can't emphasise enough the control shafts give you in this respect. Possibly you need to just go out on any similar sized shaft drive flybridge from Princess regardless of the variable thrusters.

As for the thrusters. I'm not sure they are quite the deal breaker you are convincing yourself they might be. I saw nothing on the video you couldn't do with normal thrusters on joystick toggles. The exception being of course locking them into position and stepping off the boat. But I wouldn't. As the guy did that I felt a shudder going down my spine. The stern thruster packs up, the bow gets pulled into the dock, current pulls the stern away from the dock, you're left standing there as several hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of Youtube history gets made.

I don't cruise single handed, for me 50 foot is too big. Mooring, dealing with any problems, rushing to step off and slipping. People do it, but not me, I like to be in control and relaxed. I certainly don't step off the boat whilst anything is still in gear. I can see so many potential pitfalls. Debris blocking the thruster, electro mechanical failure, someone accidentally knocking the controls.

If you fancy fitting variable thrusters to give you the delicate touch of a surgeon then go for it, but normal ones would do the job. You don't need variable thrusters. Someone mentioned being able to see how long they will run for until they pack up - I've never had a thruster cut out on either of the Princess boats I've had. The bow thruster on my old Phantom 42 used to stop after 10 seconds or so but that was probably due to poor installation / voltage drop or similar. It was a 1997 build boat so some time ago.

Henry

 

[Nigelpickin]

This is an interesting thread as many of the new boats we test now have the option to fit a joystick to a non-pod boat and I'm aways intrigued as to what the take up might be like.

From what I recall of these joystick systems that I've used - the one I remember most clearly is Sunseeker's JLS unit - you still have independent control of the engines and thrusters via the throttles (obviously) and the usual separate control for the bow and stern thrusters. Is this the case with the 52? If so, you get the best of both worlds.

Also, the way these systems work is so totally different to the way pods work that you don't face the same potential issues of windage affecting the potency of the system because there is no vectoring of sterndrives to be done, this joystick system uses the same equipment you would have without the the stick (shafts and thruster) but focuses all the functionality into a joystick. The behavior will be totally different to a sterndrive joystick boat which, in my experience, is less effective than IPS anyway.

I'm not for or against the joystick, just some observations. Either way, the 52 is a lovely boat.

Well there's the answer, Jack just needs to get down to Plymouth and do a full test of the latest Princess shaft drive 'Joystick' system and compare to standard screws and IPS...would be a great feature for the Magazine and a real boon for the sales people when directing clients.

Of course if the system is naff you might have to bury it

 

[Nigelpickin]

Just to clarify things having seen the video.

You can spin the P52 round on its own axis using the engines very easily. I can't emphasise enough the control shafts give you in this respect. Possibly you need to just go out on any similar sized shaft drive flybridge from Princess regardless of the variable thrusters.

As for the thrusters. I'm not sure they are quite the deal breaker you are convincing yourself they might be. I saw nothing on the video you couldn't do with normal thrusters on joystick toggles. The exception being of course locking them into position and stepping off the boat. But I wouldn't. As the guy did that I felt a shudder going down my spine. The stern thruster packs up, the bow gets pulled into the dock, current pulls the stern away from the dock, you're left standing there as several hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of Youtube history gets made.

I don't cruise single handed, for me 50 foot is too big. Mooring, dealing with any problems, rushing to step off and slipping. People do it, but not me, I like to be in control and relaxed. I certainly don't step off the boat whilst anything is still in gear. I can see so many potential pitfalls. Debris blocking the thruster, electro mechanical failure, someone accidentally knocking the controls.

If you fancy fitting variable thrusters to give you the delicate touch of a surgeon then go for it, but normal ones would do the job. You don't need variable thrusters. Someone mentioned being able to see how long they will run for until they pack up - I've never had a thruster cut out on either of the Princess boats I've had. The bow thruster on my old Phantom 42 used to stop after 10 seconds or so but that was probably due to poor installation / voltage drop or similar. It was a 1997 build boat so some time ago.

Henry

Re shudder...my last boat had Cummins with Skyhook, the dealer demo'd by pulling into the finger berth and pressing hold. He then proceeded to get off the boat and tie the lines, all in an effort to show how the system allowed single handed operation - FAIL.

 

[rubberduck]

We have the skyhook on our system, & have tested it out a few time for fun, I would not trust it & step off the boat, all it has to do is lose its fix, which it has done.

 

[stelican]

Joystick

Just to clarify things having seen the video.

You can spin the P52 round on its own axis using the engines very easily. I can't emphasise enough the control shafts give you in this respect. Possibly you need to just go out on any similar sized shaft drive flybridge from Princess regardless of the variable thrusters.

As for the thrusters. I'm not sure they are quite the deal breaker you are convincing yourself they might be. I saw nothing on the video you couldn't do with normal thrusters on joystick toggles. The exception being of course locking them into position and stepping off the boat. But I wouldn't. As the guy did that I felt a shudder going down my spine. The stern thruster packs up, the bow gets pulled into the dock, current pulls the stern away from the dock, you're left standing there as several hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of Youtube history gets made.

I don't cruise single handed, for me 50 foot is too big. Mooring, dealing with any problems, rushing to step off and slipping. People do it, but not me, I like to be in control and relaxed. I certainly don't step off the boat whilst anything is still in gear. I can see so many potential pitfalls. Debris blocking the thruster, electro mechanical failure, someone accidentally knocking the controls.

If you fancy fitting variable thrusters to give you the delicate touch of a surgeon then go for it, but normal ones would do the job. You don't need variable thrusters. Someone mentioned being able to see how long they will run for until they pack up - I've never had a thruster cut out on either of the Princess boats I've had. The bow thruster on my old Phantom 42 used to stop after 10 seconds or so but that was probably due to poor installation / voltage drop or similar. It was a 1997 build boat so some time ago.

Henry

I was going to reply to Jacks contribution when your post popped up well said
I really cannot see the point of joystick or variable thrusters on a shaft drive boat , I have driven all manner of boats for many years and managed perfectly well in many tight situations just with a bowthruster. There is just too much to go wrong with the joystick system.
Frightening!

 

[Nigelpickin]

We have the skyhook on our system, & have tested it out a few time for fun, I would not trust it & step off the boat, all it has to do is lose its fix, which it has done.

Agree, its good for a bit of fun but we could not find many uses for it, the boat shunts around as the boat tries to hold its position...which is pretty much what happened on the demo.

Also agree re your previous comment, we came back from Brest last August after I suffered a yet to be diagnosed bi-lateral pulmonary embolism, suffice to say that Ann was very pleased to have the Joystick when we arrived in Falmouth. An extreme example I know but it very much brought home the importance of having more than one 'driver' on board.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

An extreme example I know but it very much brought home the importance of having more than one 'driver' on board.

Thats the first decent reason I've seen on this thread for having a joystick control. Whilst henryf is correct in that there is nothing on that Sleipner video that couldn't be accomplished with the engines and occasional bursts of bowthruster, there's no question that a modicum of skill and experience is required to do that. I suspect that most of us are guilty of doing most if not all of the helming while our SWMBOs do the line and fender handling so an intuitive joystick control might make the difference between our SWMBOs safely parking our boats whilst we're having our heart attack and putting a big hole in them

 

[Princess52]

Nigel, whether you decide on joystick or thrusters just make sure that they work! I bought a new p42 in 2013 and a new v52 last July. Both with variable thrusters. Both systems failed completely whilst coming into Sutton Harbour lock. I would also recommend that (as much as possible) you do not take delivery of the boat until you have been through it with a fine tooth Combe. Once you have parted with your money it's too late. For every problem they try to fix they create two more. Hence my boat has been unusable for two months. These boats are being pushed out of the factory too early.

 

[volvopaul]

Nigel, whether you decide on joystick or thrusters just make sure that they work! I bought a new p42 in 2013 and a new v52 last July. Both with variable thrusters. Both systems failed completely whilst coming into Sutton Harbour lock. I would also recommend that (as much as possible) you do not take delivery of the boat until you have been through it with a fine tooth Combe. Once you have parted with your money it's too late. For every problem they try to fix they create two more. Hence my boat has been unusable for two months. These boats are being pushed out of the factory too early.

Sadly Im hearing this now all too often, princess and there dealer seem to be really slipping back on quality, I've hear this from v45 and very recently v39 owner who's boat has spent more time being repaired than used. Not what it used to be.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Nigel, whether you decide on joystick or thrusters just make sure that they work! I bought a new p42 in 2013 and a new v52 last July. Both with variable thrusters. Both systems failed completely whilst coming into Sutton Harbour lock. I would also recommend that (as much as possible) you do not take delivery of the boat until you have been through it with a fine tooth Combe. Once you have parted with your money it's too late. For every problem they try to fix they create two more. Hence my boat has been unusable for two months. These boats are being pushed out of the factory too early.

That's really a shame, I've had a great experience from our dealer but it goes to show how variable the experience can be. There are some real champions of the Princess brand on here, (quite rightly).

You definitely want good control when they open and close the gates at Sutton, especially in a strong southerly!

Not seen any reports on your new boat...I'm sure there are plenty of us who'd want to see/hear about the 52!

 

[Princess52]

I looked at everything from a 58 Fairline, p52 &56. I am a fan of Princess and I have had a good experience from the Plymouth dealer. However I am really really disappointed with PMI. I could list a long example of faults (today's email was a Gem! ) however I do not want to high jack this thread. One point that maybe worth checking on the P52 is whether the anchor works. For example When we took delivery of our £850k v52 boat the anchor would not fully winch in. What occurred is that the anchor chain somehow did not feed into the anchor locker. The only way the anchor could be winched in was if my wife leant into the locker with a boat hook and moved the chain as I held the boat and winched it in. Now appreciate that she is slight and a boat doesn't stay still....bless her she nearly fell head first into the locker! Eventually PMI retrofitted a feeder as the anchor chain does not feed into the locker and gets tangled on the winch. This is a design fault and must affect every v52. I am not sure if the p52 is the same. I could go on

 

[Bandit]

I quite agree with Volvo Paul, firstly 2013 Princess should consider arriving in Plymouth to receive the boat with SHMBO and a mate who is experienced at boating to go through the entire boat bit by bit with as said the fine tooth comb over a day or two and test every system a few times and inspect everything and then per haps the OP depending on where 2013Princess bases his boat he should consider basing it in a Plymouth marina for a few months and do some shake up cruises so the boat can be de snagged before he moves it away.

 

[Hurricane]

Personally, we have had great support for our Princess - even now after 7 years.
However, I believe that our good service is down to PMYS and more specifically, the guys at Swanwick.
For example, Peter Harwood runs his own checks when he receives a boat from the factory.
In our case, he went right through her rejecting stuff long before I got to see the problems.

If you look back over this forum you will see lots of cases but how many bad reports are from boats delivered out of Swanwick?
Yes, there will be cases but they deal with the problems.
Thats my experience anyway.

Also, to have a successful delivery of a boat, it is a two way thing.
The new owner has to understand and help with the whole deal - from the boat's delivery right through its life.
If you moan at every little thing you won't enjoy the experience.

If I were buying a new boat, it would probably be another Princess and it would be delivered through the guys in Swanwick.
As far as I'm concerned, we have had exceptional service and backup.

 

[Bandit]

Ref Hurricane, I totally agree, check everything, be reasonable and sort out the significant items.

 

[Princess52]

Hurricane, unfortunately the product that you purchased 7 years ago is no comparison to today's vessels. With the greatest of respect You bought your boat in the golden age of boat building. You have to experience today's models to fully appreciate the trauma of buying new and having the pleasure of transferring 850k (4 brand new Rolls Royce's)from the bank account. Swanick/Plymouth are equally competent but when you are dealing with the factory and with boats completed too fast it is not a question of service it is the initial build quality of the product. There are no "courtesy cars" in boating. For example two months later ......

" Roof is all done

Unfortunately we have had an issue with the bulkhead veneer. When this wood arrived here yesterday with the guy that was going to change the door and frame and reveneer the bulkhead the veneer had a split in it right in the middle which must have happened during transportation from the factory to Sutton Harbour so they were unable to use it. They have had to reorder this veneer which has to go through a paint process and didn't want to change the door until they had both parts. As a temporary measure they have fitted a capping over the split in the veneer.

I am waiting for an update to confirm A when the veneer will be ready and B when they will re attend.

PYI are most apologetic about this and have asked me to pass this on to you."

I think that you get the gist. It is not just me.

 

[Nick_H]

Also, to have a successful delivery of a boat, it is a two way thing.
The new owner has to understand and help with the whole deal - from the boat's delivery right through its life.
If you moan at every little thing you won't enjoy the experience.

A few years ago two forumites bought big Sunseekers with black paint jobs. Both of them quickly had a problem with the gelcoat fading and turning dull, and Sunseeker offered to paint them with black awlgrip under warranty. One of the forumites posted to say what fantastic service this was, and weren't Sunseeker brilliant. The other posted to say what poor product quality this was, and weren't Sunseeker rubbish. Neither of them was wrong, but I wonder who had the better ownership experience