Primary diesel filter.

nigel1 said:
Just checked the old CAV type filter housing that I removd from my Bene 473 (Volvo Penta TMD 22). The threaded "tower" you mentioned is removable, it screws into the bottom of the metal bowl. So if you unscrew it a few turns, it raises the height of the "tower" which will allow the top bolt to enage poperly.

Not that it matters now as I see you have ordered the Racor knock off.
Has anyone tried the Racor copy as sold by Parts 4 Engines
500 FG Turbine Fuel filter assembly

Listed at £65, but no indication of who the maker is.
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Thanks for that info.

My initial impression was that the tower is an integral part of the bottom aluminium casting but will look again!
 
TNLI said:
Totally agree, the CAV is a cheap truck filter that always seems to cause some kind of fitting issue. Even the cheap, (25 quid on Fleabay) copies of a Racor 500FG are far better than a CAV. Also any primary fuel filter should have a see through bowl, although make sure it is not fitted in the engine bay, as that can result in it complicating an engine fire incident. Not allowed in the same compartment on a commercial boat.
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Have you any idea how many thousands of the CAV ( now Delphi) have been made & fitted to all sorts of machines including farm & construction machinery? My cousin has lost count of the times he has been upside down in the mud & water changing these because some idiot has got sand or mud in the fuel. He says it is a piece of cake & if it was not easy people would not use them.One pattern suts many machines which makes it easy.
I had untold leak problems for the first 4 years on my boat & he called me a spanner monkey. We then realised that Hanse had fitted a cheepo CAV clone. I chucked it & installed a genuine Delphi unit. Since then it has worked first time every time.

Having bellows for filling is sensible, as it saves working the starter motor unnecessarily, or pouring fuel all over the place trying to fill the bowl in a sea way.
My filter is mounted on 2 studs & has long fuel lines each side. I just release 2 butterfly wing nuts. Bring the housing out of the engine bay, over a bucket, Change the filter & put it back. Easy. I carry 4 spare filters & bought from a tractor dealer they are cheap. I also have a glass bowl with drain cock for Belgian customs to prove I have white fuel; plus a metal one for canals where they may insist on it for fire regs
What is not to like.
 
Sailfree said:
Not trained but like many on here 1st car was a cheap £30 one and ended up in first few years removing the engine and gearbox and overdrive unit and reconditioning all of them myself.

I always bought the necessary tools to do any job and ended up with a back street garage business that I did at weekends and evenings that initially supplemented my income and finally financed me with wife and kids to complete a 4yr degree in structural engineering.

More difficult to do that now with need for specialist diagnostics tools often specific to particular manufacturers.

But your right I'm not a trained mechanic just one of a generation that became competent mechanics and builders from economic necessity with car and house ownership!
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Congrats on becoming a structural engineer, I am a chartered civil and structural engineer as well but I did my degree straight from school.
 
PabloPicasso said:
Yes, agree completely.

Some people just want to stick with the way they've always done it no matter what.
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TBH, the time saved by having a Racor type isn't really important to me as my life is not so full that it matters to save 5 mins once a year. If I bought a boat with Racor, I wouldn't change for a CAV though although CAV elements are much cheaper than Racor.
All you have to do is fit the various sealing rings properly, in the right place and not over tighten them and you'll have no trouble.
 
Daydream believer said:
Having bellows for filling is sensible, as it saves working the starter motor unnecessarily, or pouring fuel all over the place trying to fill the bowl in a sea way.
My filter is mounted on 2 studs & has long fuel lines each side. I just release 2 butterfly wing nuts. Bring the housing out of the engine bay, over a bucket, Change the filter & put it back. Easy. I carry 4 spare filters & bought from a tractor dealer they are cheap. I also have a glass bowl with drain cock for Belgian customs to prove I have white fuel; plus a metal one for canals where they may insist on it for fire regs
What is not to like.
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Plenty not to like when the engine stops and the boat is rolling violently in a beam sea, as I found out one time. Changing filters in the marina or on mooring in benign situations is usually pretty simple but, even in those situations we have many forum threads about folks having problems getting CAVs to seal. With smelly hot engine and boat rolling around, it's not a fun job and you'll be lucky if the bucket stays upright.
 
The big advantage of the CAV is it's only £3 to change it, so it can be done twice a year whether it needs it or not.
Then I will know whether I'm getting a lot of dirt in the fuel and will get the tank properly clean.

For similar money to a dodgy fake Racor filter, I could easily add a polishing system to my tank.
For less than the price of a gen-u-wine one, I could add a reserve tank.

Also wondering if there are any other options, you can get clear bowl water separators for not much cash, something similar with a fine gauze mesh would stop any large bits of dirt and let you see what's going on?

Or maybe a filter from a car with a water sensor in it?

I do know a couple of people who've had to change fuel filters at sea, both had to change the filters more than once in short succession. If the fuel gets dirty enough to block filters, it may well keep doing so!
 
ghostlymoron said:
Congrats on becoming a structural engineer, I am a chartered civil and structural engineer as well but I did my degree straight from school.
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Now retired so I have let my membership of Institute of Arbitrators and Institution of Civil Engineers lapse but having worked so hard to get qualified I have retained the membership of MI StructE and C Eng but its a bit silly really as I don't intend to go back to work.
 
Sailfree said:
Now retired so I have let my membership of Institute of Arbitrators and Institution of Civil Engineers lapse but having worked so hard to get qualified I have retained the membership of MI StructE and C Eng but its a bit silly really as I don't intend to go back to work.
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I'm also retired now but keep my retired membership going.
 
ghostlymoron said:
I'm also retired now but keep my retired membership going.
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My chartered inst of building -MCIOB-membership is now free due to my age. But like you, I still keep my other prof qually going -MRICS- & it came in useful for a couple of club insurance items. The insurance company even accepted my qualification when they needed a valuation of the cruiser class work boat. They also accepted a load test I did on our gantry mast crane, even though I have no particular training as such. ( I made it absolutely clear in the report at the beginning & also the conclusion). Other than having been in attendance when my own lifting gear was tested over the years.
 
Wing Mark said:
The big advantage of the CAV is it's only £3 to change it, so it can be done twice a year whether it needs it or not.
Then I will know whether I'm getting a lot of dirt in the fuel and will get the tank properly clean.

For similar money to a dodgy fake Racor filter, I could easily add a polishing system to my tank.
For less than the price of a gen-u-wine one, I could add a reserve tank.

...

I do know a couple of people who've had to change fuel filters at sea, both had to change the filters more than once in short succession. If the fuel gets dirty enough to block filters, it may well keep doing so!
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+1 for the CAV
I change it every -religiously- 100 hours and given the number of hours of my engine I must be well over 50 times, also adding the secondary filter and the polishing system filters, both CAV, never had any particular problems.
In my case, should the filter get blocked and stop the engine, the most annoying thing will be bleeding the engine, the high pressure side of the 4108 has several bolts which must be undone, primed and then screwed again, the priming bulb helps but it *will* be a mess with diesel everywhere, filter XX or filter YY.
May I add that if at all possible, by far the best means to have clean fuel is to fit a proper tank access hatch: I open mine once or twice a season to clean the inside particles and polish the fuel, when I change the CAV primary it is almost always barely dirty.
I had the engine stopped only once, because of a piece of residue which detached from the inside surface of the filling hose, then blocked the outlet hole inside the tank :( I am now putting some internal wire gauze filter around the exit hole, I guess I'd need an entire plastic bag to block it completely.
 
Roberto said:
+1 for the CAV
I change it every -religiously- 100 hours and given the number of hours of my engine I must be well over 50 times, also adding the secondary filter and the polishing system filters, both CAV, never had any particular problems.
In my case, should the filter get blocked and stop the engine, the most annoying thing will be bleeding the engine, the high pressure side of the 4108 has several bolts which must be undone, primed and then screwed again, the priming bulb helps but it *will* be a mess with diesel everywhere, filter XX or filter YY.
May I add that if at all possible, by far the best means to have clean fuel is to fit a proper tank access hatch: I open mine once or twice a season to clean the inside particles and polish the fuel, when I change the CAV primary it is almost always barely dirty.
I had the engine stopped only once, because of a piece of residue which detached from the inside surface of the filling hose, then blocked the outlet hole inside the tank :( I am now putting some internal wire gauze filter around the exit hole, I guess I'd need an entire plastic bag to block it completely.
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I'd be careful about putting a filter inside the tank - eventually it will block up and cause problems (especially if you've forgotten it's there).
 
ghostlymoron said:
I'd be careful about putting a filter inside the tank - eventually it will block up and cause problems (especially if you've forgotten it's there).
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Yes there is that possibility.
My tank has a hole on its side with a small length of pipe welded on the outside (+tap, pipe to the filter, etc), first option would be this kind of spice bowl mesh, fitted somehow (?) inside the tank around the hole, some are 7-10cm diameter they should provide plenty of surface before being entirely covered by sediments.
Tank filter.jpg
I also bought a number of mushroom shaped filters, those used in paint sprayers, I'll check if some of their spigots fit inside the exit hole and if it does not restrict fuel flow too much.
I reckon opening and checking the tank at least once a year should provide plenty of time to clean or replace these inside filters before they block fuel flow. I keep the tank very clean, the problem are pieces of sediment/gunge that occasionally develop in the few hidden places of the tank, the only occasion I had my engine stopped was by a floating thing a few centimeter wide.

Addition
I tend to overcheck tank/fuel as in a number of occasions a stopped engine would have meant losing my boat altogether, of course different types of sailing may not require to bother so much.
 
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