Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

[FlyingGoose]

My thanks to all those who have contributed in a positive way to the discussion.

For many this forum has been a much-loved source of knowledge and inspiration. Now it has become home to some nasty, viscous, bullies, it’s time for me to move on.

Sorry to see you go your arguments were well founded and constructed and a voice of reason a different view to look at

But those that cannot write without throwing their weight around are Generally middle to old aged white men having a tantrum on their computers , using language that insults, humiliates, Generally wanting to pull people down , they feel they are throwing their ego around generally used to own or manage a company , but what they do not realise is that management is not just about shouting and having an ego nor is having lots of money, it is about communication , holding teams together , motivation and the most important is understanding there are many opinions out there and to listen you might find yourself more enlightened in the world
Bullies is to strong a word for these keyboard warriors , because in real life they would not say it to some one personally they sneak and hid behind their computers to abuse , one can only take heart that the silent majority think they are being an arse but cannot be bothered wasting their time telling them, as life is counted in seconds and they rather not waste it on them.

So let us look at the generally behaviour of such people

Laughing faces when an important t point is being made
Critiquing spelling as a discussion is not going their way
Using language that is a personnel attack of some ones intelligence or outlook
Not reading posts clearly and critiquing them
Not starting the thread and Jumping in Like a bull in a china Shop to shout down some one half way through the thread
Putting people in Ignore because they cannot challenge the argument and get frustrated as their brain cannot keep up
Picking up on someones disability , be it mental or physical
Thinking that age gives one a certain authority , because I have lived and snowflake land in rubbish
My favourite , being Called a Troll when the discussion is reasonable and in context to the original OP


You all know who you are , and really need to look in the mirror and say do I actually like myself . could I have written that differently, can I Be a better person
Nope because you will always languish in that pit of bile to self centred glorification

 

[Stemar]

I've always assumed such people to be rather pathetic creatures of such insignificance that their only way of self-validation is to bully people from a safe distance, so not worth my attention. I'm quite happy to offer them an alternative point of view in polite debate but, in the end, it usually comes down to a choice between "don't feed the troll" and "you can't fix stupid", so it's time to move on to another thread

 

[dom]

My thanks to all those who have contributed in a positive way to the discussion.

For many this forum has been a much-loved source of knowledge and inspiration. Now it has become home to some nasty, viscous, bullies, it’s time for me to move on.

Just seen this and it's a pity. Sad to say, but the problem you point out is real, but the people involved here -- unless it's me that you're talking about in which case apologies -- are truly not the culprits. For that you'd need to look into the Lounge, or perhaps an electrical thread on PBO!

Anyhow, your posts were sensible and polite and you'd be a welcome addition should you upon reflection conclude that the vast majority here - and that's the truth - are thoroughly decent waterborne folk. Just ignore the trolls and there's even a handy ignore button for that

 

[[165264]]

Interesting numbers. It just shows you how slim the margins are without visitor fees and marina services (which are included in your numbers).

I said they didn't make much!

 

[[165264]]

Make that NO negotiation! Rates are rates, take it or leave it. The Solent is very popular, crowded yes at times, but some great destinations within a few miles. Proximity to Greater London means plenty of well to do customers. I guess if the current crisis means many owners giving up, then a lot of empty berths could well see some ‘special offers’

I DO hope so!

 

[[165264]]

I've always assumed such people to be rather pathetic creatures of such insignificance that their only way of self-validation is to bully people from a safe distance, so not worth my attention. I'm quite happy to offer them an alternative point of view in polite debate but, in the end, it usually comes down to a choice between "don't feed the troll" and "you can't fix stupid", so it's time to move on to another thread

Quite! Like FG.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Quite! Like FG.

How sad , my heart is broken
In other news McDonalds have told their landlords they want rent reductions because of covid , now if the Mighty McDonalds deserve a rebate of their Rent while not trading , is Premier any different ,
Seems certain Individual marinas are offering discounts to their clients as a good will gestures, but not Premier, if this was my Marina I would be off,

 

[dom]

Quite! Like FG.

I agree, to an extent. FG is relatively new around here and has unsurprisingly wandered into the Fight Club (aka The Lounge). The gloves off rules of survival in there are very different to here, but that may not be immediately obvious. FG is clearly a highly intelligent and articulate chap who clearly understands virology amongst other scientific matters and this offers a useful addition to many threads Perhaps it’s the lockdown, perhaps it’s cabin fever, or perhaps we should all swallow a chill pill and agree to politely differ on some things?

 

[steveeasy]

How sad , my heart is broken
In other news McDonalds have told their landlords they want rent reductions because of covid , now if the Mighty McDonalds deserve a rebate of their Rent while not trading , is Premier any different ,
Seems certain Individual marinas are offering discounts to their clients as a good will gestures, but not Premier, if this was my Marina I would be off,

I did not realise we were discussing whether premier were after or due a rent rebate. If at some point we ask our Landlords for a rent rebate, which I might add is not needed as yet, If we get one it wont be to reduce the rates for customers, it will be to offset any reduced income. Facility type businesses similar to a marina will only just cover its fixed costs with the primary income, Its the bit on the top that makes all the difference. used to be called tea money but far more crucial nowadays.
Steveeasy

 

[FlyingGoose]

I did not realise we were discussing whether premier were after or due a rent rebate. If at some point we ask our Landlords for a rent rebate, which I might add is not needed as yet, If we get one it wont be to reduce the rates for customers, it will be to offset any reduced income. Facility type businesses similar to a marina will only just cover its fixed costs with the primary income, Its the bit on the top that makes all the difference. used to be called tea money but far more crucial nowadays.
Steveeasy

No I agree it really was Just to compare that tenants , service industries, holiday companies, flights, etc are all asking for refunds or compensation in some way ,and in any service industry , it is the customers right to ask for a refund if the service they are getting is poor.
Now Marinas were not told to close, only to consider it , if they cannot do social distancing, many bushiness are starting to open after spending considerable time and money adapting their bushiness to allow customers back as they need cash flow.
Not difficulty for a marina also to implement social distancing rules put plastic screens up in their offices , extra cleaning staff for toilets ,etc,
But they do not need to because they already have their money , and lets be truly honest here, the money they make is not from visiting boats in the Summer , the bulk is berth holders , and tenants , which are still allowed to work so still will be paying their rents ,
I have now heard from 1 Independent , 1 family owned, and my own marina that are doing the right thing by offering something to their customers. I have no beef with Premier , never been there , but when told that a service industry not supplying you with your service and charging you and not even apologising for it , makes me sad.
If you accept this as a customer then that is for you , I do not and merely put my opinion on this . as said I have Asperger's ,all my life I have been ruled by laws , fairness and equality there is no choice in the matter , it what made me a great GM for the hospitality industry. , but also a pain in the arse to some on here
I always though forums were to allow difference of opinion , if we all agreed and patted each other on the back every time some one said something the same we would lose free thought , anyways speech over

 

[Baroudeur]

Now Marinas were not told to close, only to consider it , if they cannot do social distancing, many bushiness are starting to open after spending considerable time and money adapting their bushiness to allow customers back as they need cash flow.
Not difficulty for a marina also to implement social distancing rules put plastic screens up in their offices , extra cleaning staff for toilets ,etc,

Indeed. They were very quick to voluntarily close, which surprised many at the time, and continues to surprise anyone I have cause to talk to about it.

However, if B&Q and other retail businesses can reopen, then so can marinas in my view. Very little time would be spent in shared facilities overall - but working on a boat (I (like a very large number of other marina users) live some 5-10 minutes away - so no long journeys either) would be the ideal isolation activity with the 2m distancing very hard to abuse even if you wanted to.

I believe reopening to be especially relevant in Premier’s case, given that they did not furlough any staff.

As for discounts, I don’t expect any given the relatively short period this has all been in place, and that Premiere appear to have treated their staff decently for once, but I also lack any trust whatsoever in them supposedly taking extra care of my boat during the time they have excluded me.

I just want to access my boat, a significant investment financially, and currently in the hands of a company I have no faith in to do what they say they will at all - a belief based in experience and personal observation I should add.

 

[laika]

I believe reopening to be especially relevant in Premier’s case, given that they did not furlough any staff.

Can we take an implicit "I haven't read the whole thread but..." at the start of that post?

 

[Baroudeur]

Can we take an implicit "I haven't read the whole thread but..." at the start of that post?

No, we cannot. Considering that it was started several weeks ago and is now 10 pages long, and the title of the thread is 'why haven't premier furloughed staff' etc and I've regularly commented on the state of Brighton Marina.

Are you saying they have?

 

[duncan99210]

Just one example where it’s not the marina‘s choice to close but the Harbour Commissioner. Falmouth has issued a NTM essentially closing the harbour for all recreational boating, including marinas. So the first step in reopening Falmouth Premier Marina is going to be getting that NTM rescinded. It wouldn’t surprise me to discover that other harbour authorities have imposed similar NTMs preventing recreational boating until they’re lifted.

 

[laika]

Are you saying they have?

Pointed out several times that that wasn't what was said in the mail the OP based this thread on:
Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

...and later confirmed that Premier have indeed furloughed staff:
Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

 

[Baroudeur]

Pointed out several times that that wasn't what was said in the mail the OP based this thread on:
Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

...and later confirmed that Premier have indeed furloughed staff:
Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

If true, then perhaps we should be expecting a discount and rebate on fees given their voluntary closure. Although this may also set a precedent with the chronic silting, lack of concerted effort to remedy it, and their bold claim of 24 hour access given that any boat with a regular keel >1.5m is pretty limited to a few hours either side of HW for leaving or arriving to their home berth.

The last email I have from them about the closure was on 8th April, when they said:

“Consequently, we have kept all our staff on full pay, supporting them and their families through this crisis and in doing so ensuring that when you are able to visit the marina, you will be welcomed by people you know and who know your boat.”

So, misleading at best I say.

Also, in Brighton, the high turnover of staff due to poor conditions and other Premier related factors, this means that ‘people who know your boat’ is also fairly wrong in fact.

 

[laika]

So, misleading at best I say.

I tend to disagree: The message is "We're doing the decent thing by our staff and keeping them on full pay whether furloughed or not" which is presumably true. They haven't claimed anything else and given that 25% of the U.K. workforce is currently furloughed, doing otherwise to save the taxpayer a few quid would be a futile gesture and bad business practice.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Interesting that Premier Marinas reporting 6% loss of revenue form 2017 2018
the largest marina operators, has reported a 6% fall in post-tax profits to £4.782m for the 2017-18 fiscal year to September 30, 2018 compared with £5.088m in the year previous.
And Guess what happened to . The total remuneration of directors increased to £705,766 in 2017-18 as against £564,413 in the previous year. well there is a surprise ,
Premier Marinas reports small fall in profits

The Wellcome Trust announces today that is has acquired marina operator Premier Marinas Limited (“PML”) from the BlackRock UK Property Fund
Paul Tebbit, Director at BlackRock, said, "PML has generated strong returns for BlackRock over the last decade
the Trust's £18 billion endowment, which has grown by 166% over the past decade to 30 September 2014
Wellcome Trust acquires Premier Marinas Limited from BlackRock UK Property Fund | Wellcome

 

[Baroudeur]

I tend to disagree: The message is "We're doing the decent thing by our staff and keeping them on full pay whether furloughed or not" which is presumably true. They haven't claimed anything else and given that 25% of the U.K. workforce is currently furloughed, doing otherwise to save the taxpayer a few quid would be a futile gesture and bad business practice.

Fair enough. But, it’s another regular Premier thing to be a little deceiving in these mails. I remember one last year telling us how Premier have taken up the use of Sea Bins and how they were fighting the plastics issue. Despite asking several times, I still don’t know why Brighton don’t have them. Do other Premier sites?

Anyway, more examples of saying one thing and not delivering in my view. :/

Also, it would have been nice to hear from my Premier Marina about updates and so on a little more often. Maybe some more detailed indications of what they’re doing in our absence. As it stands right now, I just see liveaboards there posting on Instagram and taking over the pontoons for playgrounds while working on their boats. To say that it’s frustrating is an understatement indeed.

 

[steveeasy]

I disagree, they were not quick of the mark to close, and its open to question if it was voluntarily or not.

The government made it clear and for good reason which type of businesses should close, the list included leisure and retail businesses. the interpretation of that list was quite clear. If they had not closed they would have been told too. they also would have taken a lot of criticism for staying open. In my town several businesses stayed open and the police visited and told them to close. they still are. one was a car wash centre.
Band Q are a completely different affair. They were allowed to continue trading as deemed an essential retail business. they chose to close then reopened, but there was no need for them to close. unfortunately marinas are not essential. They are not offering a poor service, its just its been restricted for now.

Some of the comments are based on assumptions rather than factual. we do not know if tenants are paying their rents. we clearly do not know if staff are furloughed or not. Of course they like most other businesses will be loosing income. where I keep my boat, they will not be doing lifts or antifouls. this service covers 2-4 staff wages. lots of other income will be impacted. Quite frankly I suspect they all just want to open and get the boats on the water, as there will be a lot of boatowners trying to get put in the water at once.

As soon as the government removes the closure of leisure type businesses, then those might have a valid argument. the fact is you cant go to the boat anyway at the moment so what difference does it make. youd get know where in a legal claim I suspect.

Steveeasy