Premier Marinas - Why haven't they furloughed staff?

[chrisharris]

In the letter from Premier that I received which I posted above in post 46, Premier stated that their staff have been kept on full pay. ...



Read into that what you will, I read it that they were still working. But It could be interpreted as "they're furloughed plus we've topped the salary up".

Indeed. I had assumed it had meant that they were not currently furloughed, but could be read the other way. Another element is how seasonal/temporary staff (zero contracts?) are being managed. I assume that this group are not being engaged/paid....

 

[Frogmogman]

I'm not sure that this is just a straight choice for a business. I don't know how the furlough scheme works in the UK, but when I applied for help from the French Government with my staff salaries (with zero money coming into the business) I had to justify in my application why this was financially necessary. I'm pretty sure that had my income stream been substantially intact, regardless of whether my staff could work or not, I'd have been told to go and jump in a lake.

 

[laika]

In the letter from Premier that I received which I posted above in post 46, Premier stated that their staff have been kept on full pay. ...

See posts #20, #23, #33, #73 etc.

Read into that what you will, I read it that they were still working. But It could be interpreted as "they're furloughed plus we've topped the salary up".

Indeed. I had assumed it had meant that they were not currently furloughed, but could be read the other way

The only conclusion you can draw is exactly what it says: All staff are on full pay. There is *no information* in that mail about how many workers are furloughed. Nothing on that topic can be logically determined from that mail.

I am not making any point about rebates or choices Premier should make re: dividends vs staff bonuses vs re-investment vs. customer rebates, simply arguing a point of logic.

I'm not sure that this is just a straight choice for a business. I don't know how the furlough scheme works in the UK

Full details are on the HMRC website so no need to speculate.

 

[Bobc]

I'm not sure that this is just a straight choice for a business. I don't know how the furlough scheme works in the UK, but when I applied for help from the French Government with my staff salaries (with zero money coming into the business) I had to justify in my application why this was financially necessary. I'm pretty sure that had my income stream been substantially intact, regardless of whether my staff could work or not, I'd have been told to go and jump in a lake.

In the UK, you don't have to make any justifications at all. Regrettably I've just had to furlough 3 of my people today, although I will be topping-up their pay to normal full pay as I see that as the right thing to do.

 

[migs]

I don’t think we’re going to find out what Premier are doing with their at-home staff until we are allowed back into our marinas - unless Premier deign to tell us.

The first thing we’ll be asking is ‘hi guys, good to see you again; have you been unfurloughed?’ Hopefully followed by our genoas doing the same…

 

[steveeasy]

B.

Surely everybody needs to contribute to the costs of getting through this? As a berth holder I am getting most but not all of the service I have paid for from Chichester Marina, my boat is being stored & is safe, but the lock is not being operated. My inability to drive to the marina is not their fault & neither is the reluctance to be seen out as the only boat on the water. However I would expect a smart & commercially savvy marina operator to want to engage me in a conversation about some form of rebate when this is all over, not because they had saved money but because they want me to feel I will continue to get value for money when the future lockdowns happen, as they surely will.

However as a UK tax payer I would be distraught if a perfectly well functioning business with almost guaranteed revenue had made use of the Furlough scheme, it was set up to ensure that post crisis there were jobs to come back to, not for opportunistic restructuring of the accounts.

There is however one moral hazard which Premier risk falling into, they are chugging along comfortably at the moment, heads kept well down, at the same time many businesses are starting to reopen, albeit with social distancing in place, B&Q, McDonalds, Aston Martin to name a few, none of them essential, they are all also suffering financially & so have a big incentive to get going again. Given the low infection risk of boating I would have thought that marinas would be high on the list to get going but because they are too comfortable financially I fear they will hang back & deny us the use of our craft.

I have just received my annual fee request, I don't intend to do anything yet rather wait & see, I will place much more value on a rapid re-opening, with the necessary safeguards, than any rebate. The worst situation of all will be to see people happily sailing off swinging moorings in a few of weeks time whilst still being locked into the marina, if that happens I will be gone for good.

B&Q was listed as an essential retail outlet. Mc Donalds was listed a an essential Takaway outlet and Aston Martin never needed to stop as it was a manufacturing business so long as they worked under social distancing.
Steveeasy

 

[FlyingGoose]

B&Q was listed as an essential retail outlet. Mc Donalds was listed a an essential Takaway outlet and Aston Martin never needed to stop as it was a manufacturing business so long as they worked under social distancing.
Steveeasy

Brilliant essential take away , in one side the NHS tells us to eat healthy our five a day and exercise, in the other eat burgers which has as much nutritional value as a slug and no exercise according to some on here get real on the burger shop and all those queuing outside Band Q ain't getting building material
Reality is essential to understand what is really going on

 

[chrisharris]

Ok. So at the risk of a bit of thread drift, as I read it the marinas will get a business rates holiday, eg no rates to pay for this FY. No application required, a simple change to their rates bill. Does this alter the views of those against a rebate?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Why would a marina get a rates holiday? They’re not a pub. And surely the RV is over 50k. Or have I missed something?

 

[FlyingGoose]

Ok. So at the risk of a bit of thread drift, as I read it the marinas will get a business rates holiday, eg no rates to pay for this FY. No application required, a simple change to their rates bill. Does this alter the views of those against a rebate?

I have a spare tin hat if you like
But totally agree ,
In general coastal marina berth rates and occupancies recovered well keeping up with increases in running costs. They have thus maintained their profitability.
Section 640: marinas - Rating Manual section 6 part 3: valuation of all property classes - Guidance - GOV.UK
And how a proper marina should treat its customers
http://www.mdlmarinas.co.uk/sites/default/files/mds_letter_to_berth_holders_17-04-2020.pdf

 

[FlyingGoose]

If one would like to feel sorry for a mulit million pound business that cannot offer a discount for a period in April to its berth holders and thing they are doing good
PREMIER MARINAS LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

 

[chrisharris]

Why would a marina get a rates holiday? They’re not a pub. And surely the RV is over 50k. Or have I missed something?

I read the BBC news article about Debenhams in Wales not being eligible as they were larger than £500k ratable value, but would be eligible in England. I then found the below on the local.gov.uk website. I might be reading it wrong..... but....

"Working with Tourism Alliance, we have identified some tourism businesses that are not explicitly mentioned in the guidance, but in our view do fall into the intended category. This is an illustrative list to help teams unfamiliar with the tourism sector. The only official guidance on the rates relief is that published by MHCLG, with a key consideration being that the premises are open to visiting members of the public and are wholly or mainly being used for the purposes outlined in paragraphs 10 to 14 of the guidance. Therefore offices are unlikely to be eligible.

We would ask that councils give consideration the premises listed below*, as additional examples for inclusion in their local schemes :

• Amusement Arcades
• Vehicle Rental Sites
• Conference and Exhibition venues
• Non-local authority Tourism Information Centres
• Marinas/Boat Hire/Passenger Boat Facilities

*This list was amended on 20 April following discussions with MHCLG."

 

[steveeasy]

Brilliant essential take away , in one side the NHS tells us to eat healthy our five a day and exercise, in the other eat burgers which has as much nutritional value as a slug and no exercise according to some on here get real on the burger shop and all those queuing outside Band Q ain't getting building material
Reality is essential to understand what is really going on

you cant discriminate one DIY store over another. Travis perkins and B&Q, they basically sell the same products but to slightly different customers. To some people takaways are really important. It was important that all people can eat and takaway was relatively low risk. ALL licensed food outlets can sell takaway food. Pubs and even a marina restaurant.
Steveeasy

 

[FlyingGoose]

Yup lets give a multi million pound business already having peoples cash as they paid upfront for their discount or are being direct debited , a tax rebate pay for their staff to be off and then by goodness me ask for a small token of gratitude of say 40 % of Aprils fee. who would have thought that that was unreasonable . people are trying to get 20000 pounds back for weddings they booked or large deposits , why not a marina berth holder

 

[FlyingGoose]

you cant discriminate one DIY store over another. Travis perkins and B&Q, they basically sell the same products but to slightly different customers. To some people takaways are really important. It was important that all people can eat and takaway was relatively low risk. ALL licensed food outlets can sell takaway food. Pubs and even a marina restaurant.
Steveeasy

Going to my boat is low risk I will not meet a soul I have been in the house for 44 days I ain't got no virus to give anyone , my boat is not a hotel no one there , I wash my hands regularly on entering the Marina , I wash then when i get onboard my boat , then off I go for a few weeks anchoring off and enjoying the weather , but I might sink, or crash my car, but no its ok to get a scaby beefburger yummy the worlds gone mad

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I read the BBC news article about Debenhams in Wales not being eligible as they were larger than £500k ratable value, but would be eligible in England. I then found the below on the local.gov.uk website. I might be reading it wrong..... but....

"Working with Tourism Alliance, we have identified some tourism businesses that are not explicitly mentioned in the guidance, but in our view do fall into the intended category. This is an illustrative list to help teams unfamiliar with the tourism sector. The only official guidance on the rates relief is that published by MHCLG, with a key consideration being that the premises are open to visiting members of the public and are wholly or mainly being used for the purposes outlined in paragraphs 10 to 14 of the guidance. Therefore offices are unlikely to be eligible.

We would ask that councils give consideration the premises listed below*, as additional examples for inclusion in their local schemes :

• Amusement Arcades
• Vehicle Rental Sites
• Conference and Exhibition venues
• Non-local authority Tourism Information Centres
• Marinas/Boat Hire/Passenger Boat Facilities

*This list was amended on 20 April following discussions with MHCLG."

OK I did miss this, apologies.

So the Q is whether a Marina could fall into one of the categories listed in the guidance, or if the request for consideration for amendment is successful. If I was a betting man I'd say it will fail for Marinas on the grounds that income is not materially affected by the lack of footfall, whereas Boat Hire and Passenger Boat facilities may well succeed. But what do I know.

 

[chrisharris]

OK I did miss this, apologies.

So the Q is whether a Marina could fall into one of the categories listed in the guidance, or if the request for consideration for amendment is successful. If I was a betting man I'd say it will fail for Marinas on the grounds that income is not materially affected by the lack of footfall, whereas Boat Hire and Passenger Boat facilities may well succeed. But what do I know.

Logically I would agree, but it's interesting that marinas were listed in the bit I quoted. Maybe the thinking is/was they would lose out due to fewer visitor boats?

 

[Lucky Duck]

I notice the latest round of sponsored emails include the altruistic nature of their parent company.

Maybe when we next visit there will be an option to 'gift aid' the berthing dues

 

[[165264]]

This argument has been done in several posts and I have made it clear my position on a service Industry in which Marinas fall into , to associate covid with your boat on a boat forum is silly , people can have a boat and still not have a lot of money,
Comparing deaths and someone else's stress and anxiety about money and their future life is not a reasonable argument, and it is a fall back of a personnel opinion , people are dying of all sorts of diseases in the UK cancer being one do we mention them on here ior constantly make people try to feel guilty of owing a boat
People have a right to voice their opinions about their life without being led down the guilt trip path or the usual barrage of STAY AT Home
Some people have to choice but to be in a Marina as it is the closet to them or easily accessible
Premier marina is a subsidiary of the Wellness trust, this is an organisation that buys up cash rich businesses , i.e the turnover is high and the outgoings are small, they do not buy poor businesses, nor do they buy business that take a lot of time ,man power to run it, is all about the bottom line.
To say your non payment or a reduction on the months you cannot access your boat , does reflect on their work is an poor argument , it is about customer service, customer satisfaction and contractual rights nothing more
Not interested in discussing the virus , who's getting it , who's getting it because they got a discount, who's dying , who's brothers aunties uncle has it , keep it to the lounge . Fear is the enemy and lack of Knowledge

Sorry FG, but apart from your incorrect use of English, you really are wrong. Firstly, it's the Welcome Trust. It is a CHARITY. In fact it's the UK's biggest, and I think, the second biggest in the world in terms of funds under management. It doesn't make a habit of buying businesses. In fact, people were surprised when the Charity Commission allowed them to buy Premier. The Trust was allowed to do this simply because it is so well regarded by the regulator. They would NOT BE PERMITTED to buy a dodgy business. As it happens, they make little money from Premier. And the "bottom line" as you put it, is using ALL of its money for charitable works. Including putting millions into Covid-19 research. I know this is correct because my son works in a fairly senior role there.

 

[[165264]]

Does anyone here feel sorry for the hotels , bars and restaurants, feels they deserve our money in a virtual pint or room , but we feel sorry for a company with income streams in the billions , what about banks anyone feel sorry for them ,
Amazon , because your parcel is taking too long ,
If anyone thinks that boats sitting on a pontoon with no a large work force with you essentially paying car parking costs are not cash rich in the bank or can get the banks to help them were needed, well what can I say

Hotels, yes, bars, no. Purely personal prejudice.