powerboat incompetence sort-of licence

[tcm]

the raggies make a big deal of this "you can just buy a big boat and whosh off!" they say.

But tis an interesting ppoint. If you buy a telly there a tv licence. Don't see the need for a licence BUT.

If you ask for insurance on a boat, do they ask about experience? Mine didn't. Couldn't there be a "declaration of competence". in other words, statement by insured as to why they think they are already competent (there's a post bu nick_robinson below) where he lists long long list of why he rightly thinks yeah i''l be ok cos of etc etc etc.." whereas others should give bit more...and follow up re skills and such.

Because boats are Sooo different from cars, a licence is No Good. Powerboat level this and that is only a bit relevant, different sizes, tides, waters and so on. And, other skills importnat too: there are lots who have flown planes, much more difficult to navigate, no hanging around thinking bout it, so skills there will be relevant.

The insurance peeps, therefore, shd run a spare page per insured, with a flag for those who say no, i can't categorically say i am ok right now, but i will be soon becos etc etc and keep that updated. Self-licensing, essentially. Yes you can look at your own licence, and update. No, you can't look at others. If not correct, in the absolute limit, 3rd party insurance is valid, but yours isn't. Big but reasonable cheese person to decide.

BTW, if you call and ask for insurance on 80-footer, they don't ask for any qualifications, or explanation as to why on earth this will be okay, in fact they dont even ask for anything cept 10k please. So, the raggies have a point, don't they?

No, i don't want licencing per se. Wd like to force nooodles in boats to Get Some Training, and wd say that (small) number of insurers cd force it. If they don't have details on boatusers insured, the boat insurer gets a kicking from whoever.

 

[byron]

With all due respect, I am probably one of the most heavily 'licenced' person using this Forum. My opinion is bits of paper do not make good boatmen, indeed some of us, myself included are far too blase. Whereas a Newbie to boating takes a deal of care and is quite rightly aghast at someone like me who leaves port without Courses or Waypoints worked out and dealing with such matters whilst under weigh.

ô¿ô

 

[trev]

Byron -tut-tut !! I'm surprised as such a 'qualified' person as yourself using the expression under WEIGH - weighing is for anchors and should not be confused with being under WAY, which in turn should not be confused with making WAY.

Trev

 

[c_j]

My first insurance asked what experience I had and I pulled together what I had done, mostly occasional crew on friends boats. After the first year I proudly phoned up at renewal to boast my newly achieved ICC and day skipper and they were not interested. Certainly no discount for paper competence.

It seems to me that a 5% rise in premiums to allow a 5% discount for those that bother to get the paper would at least provide some incentive to do a course of some kind.

CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[ToMo]

Oh dear, boatone is going to be most put out now, it's his job to keep us all on the strait[;-)] & narrow with english as she is spaked!
<G>
TôMö

 

[peterg]

as opposed to waahaay!

which is what Byron is normally making (or is it whoopee)

 

[Guest]

Re: licencing

I think that licencing has been done to death but keeps resurfacing from time to time. Basically, although I am qualified by nothing but experience (that line does'nt work as well with women!), I support the idea of licencing of some sort as I think it is farcical that you can take a large motor cruiser to sea without ever having seen the sea or a boat before. However, I acknowledge all the potential downsides - the cost of regulation and indeed being regulated by a faceless civil servant who has never seen the sea.

I agree that getting qualified would be more widely done if insurance companies insisted on it. Another lever, in my own case, is that in looking for a bareboat charter this summer, I will have to come up with something even if it is only an ICC which I understand I can just apply for.

Nick

 

[longjohnsilver]

ICC

You used to be able to get local yacht club bod to sign to say you were competent, not now, have to do a test. I was told it was the equivalent of powerboat level 2.

 

[byron]

Sorry Trev., I had no idea that my thoughtless grammatical error would affect the value of my opinions.

ô¿ô

 

[DepSol]

On the other hand I am probably the most least qualified person on this forum, I dont even have my radio licence...ooops. However, I can navigate all of the Channel Islands and adjacent french coast, can get thrugh some local marks within arms reach of the rocks you are passing by and also navigate in the fog through the same passages. Did Gsy to Paimpol in 20m viz.

YesI suppose I could pass my ICC and all that stuff, I just haven't got around to it yet. Too busy boating. But I will have to do it this year so I can go up the Rance.

But I do agree some kind of competancy test would be good as too many accidents are caused by people not even knowing the rules of the road. I come across so many people who do not give way when they should and when you pass underneath there stern very closely to prove a point or stand on and make them take the correct course of action they hurl abuse at you.

Alot of people out there with the money to buy something fast and big but not the savvy to go with it making them a GRP torpedo in crowded areas.

Dom

 

[ArthurWood]

There's a little incentive on this side of the pond in that insurance companies generally give 10% discount if you can show that you have passed the US Power Squadron or US Coast Guard basic course which seems to be very similar to the basic RYA thing in MBY this month. Interestingly, there does not seem to be anywhere near the level of animosity in boating over here as there is in the UK. In fact IMO it's virtually absent. What's the problem over there?

 

[jfm]

Re: check your ICC Nick

On this general debate there is no clear answer. There are pros/cons of both sides. But any group (here =boaters) has to appear responsible as well as be responsible, so on balance I would support some form of licensing

As regards ICC and chartering, there are different versions of ICC. Same certificate , but 6 boxes on the front for the issuer to tick. They are

inland waters
coastal waters
all waters
motor cruiser
sailing cruiser
sportsboat

To charter a decent boat you will need 2, and 4 or 5. I think that means RYA dayskip, a 3-4 day job. If you just do pwrboat level 2 they tick box 6, not 4 and not 5. This is all AFAIK and I could be wrong, but worht checking before you try to take posssession of the charter boat?

The info above comes off the 1999 version of the RYA ICC. Earlier versions had fewer boxes

 

[c_j]

Are you sure?

My ICC was issued by the RYA and inside has four options but these are ticked on the form before it is sent to the RYA.
You then send off the form with the fee and they return your ICC in a shiny wallet which says (in my case):

Coastal Waters [Yes] Inland Waters [No]

Power [Yes] Sail [No]

Pleasure Craft not exceeding 24 mtrs in length.


The RYA logbook which logs your progress through the many theoretical and practical courses they offer including Practical Dayskipper tidal does not require sending to the RYA but is the record of achievment in its own right.

CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[tcm]

Re: phew!

better have a look at mine then...

 

[jfm]

Re: icc formats

check the date - I have one like yours for my power ICC, but my (newer) sail ICC is the new version. I spect yours is dated before Spring 1999, which is when the 6-box format I mentioned came in.... Lemme know, this is all AFAIK, IMHO etc

 

[bedouin]

Re: The problem over here

Is too many water-users in too small an area.

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: The problem over here

Bedouin - Well, that is similar in places over here, eg on lakes, although they are big, and in some places here in FL, but no undue aggression. Could it be because we never know who is carrying a gun?

 

[bedouin]

Re: The problem over here

Excuse my ignorance - but I doubt if you have quite the same pressure as is found in the stretch of the south coast between Poole and Chichester.

You mention Florida - but Florida is larger than England and has less than one third of the population.

The fact this that this part of this little island is very crowded; that leads to a tremendous pressure on space-related resources such as roads, housing, and marinas. There is a growing trend for anger in main areas of life in UK - boating is only one of them.

BTW - you also must be mislead by the tone of postings on this board. There is in fact a very high standard of consideration shown by most water-users for each other; this forum tends to concentrate on the exceptions rather than the rule, as well as playing up the 'raggie/stinkpot' debate which I assure you is largly fictional.

 

[c_j]

Re: icc formats

30th April 2001 !!

I probably got some left over thing that they had floating around in the stock room.

Only decided to do it cause possibility of Med Charter.



CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: The problem over here

Bedouin - There are crowded stretches of water in Florida eg parts of the ICW in summer, marinas in the Keys etc, thank goodness we never have to raft up at marinas. That must be the pits. I'm content with shore power, water, TV and phone hookups at no extra charge.
I had not taken into account the land-based crowding problem in the UK and the stress it causes.
re:stinkpot/raggie fiction, I'll take your word for it.
AW/expat Brit Stinkpotter