Portugal issue??

Sailfree said:
Currently Portugal is 3rd out of top 10 for US citizens to move to after Mexico and Ecuador IIRC.

Basically Portugal is a welcoming country but only want people that will overall contribute to the countries economy and not make financial demands for income support, social security or healthcare.

Unless you are retired and hence entitled to an S1 form (where NHS pick up cost for Portuguese healthcare) Portugal will require some heathcare insurance in place.


One of the currency firms recently did an article and Portugal required the least amount of money to demonstrate you are financially independant.

Algarve is some 40 % dearer than Silver Coast as it has many ex-pats/UK immigrants that have driven prices up.

Otherwise Portugal has one of the cheapest cost of livings in the EU.

Most US and Canadian citizens that have moved here recently though quoted low crime rate and feeling safe as the biggest attraction to move to Portugal.

When we first considered it in 2016 I posted on here asking advice and saying we intended to visit a number of contributors on here invited me to meet them during our visit and were very helpful.

We arrived in Jan 16 having booked only hotel in Nazare for 1st night and hired a car for 3 weeks. From Lisbon we slowly traveled N to Porto then S to Algarve and finally back to Nazare to confirm our favourite choice.

Happy in a Nazare apartment for almost 4yr but decided we wanted our own large 4 bed house which we had build a few miles inland but for not much more money than we sold the Nazare 3 bed apartment.

One aspects that repeatedly amaze us is how many UK immigrants live here for years and only know a few words of Portuguese as so many Portuguese along coastal regions (especially the young) speaking English. Unlike the French the Portuguese seem much more tolerant of English people that can't speak the local language.

Hope my experience helps you to decide but obviously a visit to understand the potential and decide what climate you prefer is essential.

There are essentially 4 climates, Algarve which is similar to coastal Southern Spain. Inland Portugal (say 30 mls from coast) where climate is hotter and more like inland Spain, Silver Coast (N of Lisbon) where its roughly 8 to 12 degrees hotter than UK bur rarely goes above 30 deg due to sea breeze and has rain but say 50% of UK but enough to be green the finally the N which is generally a bit colder (but still hotter that UK) but has a rainfall more similar to UK.
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Algarve property is dearer due to demand and not onlyUK expats, but so are other areas, especially Lisbon. Expats haven't affected prices in the shops.
 
25931 said:
Algarve property is dearer due to demand and not onlyUK expats, but so are other areas, especially Lisbon. Expats haven't affected prices in the shops.
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Many people that live on Silver Coast often book Algarve hotels for short breaks and they all remark how much dearer everything is in Algarve compared to here including restaurants, drinks etc.
 
Sailfree said:
Many people that live on Silver Coast often book Algarve hotels for short breaks and they all remark how much dearer everything is in Algarve compared to here including restaurants, drinks etc.
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I think this applies to most places around southern Europe. Don't forget what the locals are charged against the tourists rates, I know it's wrong but it happens all too frequently.
Here a property with a sea view can be as much as a 100k more than a similar property without one.
 
greeny said:
NHR relief doesn't cover everything. Lots of things are still taxed. It's not all it seems if you're still working. Depends on the type and location of the employment. Hopefully you're taking good advice from a good accountant. Just saying because I've been there and done it and was mislead in some areas of the tax relief by my financial person who turned out not to know all he professed. Still an excellent scheme overall though.
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Im a tax advisor.... ? Well I have a piece of paper that says I am anyway. So the tax will be the least of the problems!
 
roblpm said:
Im a tax advisor.... ? Well I have a piece of paper that says I am anyway. So the tax will be the least of the problems!
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What are the problems then?

So many US Canadian and Brits moving here I'm wondering what can be the or any problem.

Yes we pay the 23% IVA (equivalent yo VAT) and car tax and property tax( much lower than UK) and will pay income tax on our combined pensions in 2026 when our 10yr zero income tax due to NHR runs out.

Only problem is the EU ID cards that SEF are now trying to get on programme albeit belatedly.
 
25931 said:
They will if they say in the tourist traps which we avoid.
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I have just returned having had lunch with a friend, between Faro and Olhao. Peixe a discricao i.e. as much as you can eat, every ten mins. a tray with different fish, great variety and quality .20 euros each inc wine and coffee.
 
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Sailfree said:
What are the problems then?

So many US Canadian and Brits moving here I'm wondering what can be the or any problem.

Yes we pay the 23% IVA (equivalent yo VAT) and car tax and property tax( much lower than UK) and will pay income tax on our combined pensions in 2026 when our 10yr zero income tax due to NHR runs out.

Only problem is the EU ID cards that SEF are now trying to get on programme albeit belatedly.
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I shouldn't have phrased it like that. No problem really. Except I am a US citizen as well which is a pita. Not more much longer..... Well that is if I can ever get an appointment at the embassy to say bye bye....im on a waiting list! ?
 
Sailfree said:
What are the problems then?

So many US Canadian and Brits moving here I'm wondering what can be the or any problem.

Yes we pay the 23% IVA (equivalent yo VAT) and car tax and property tax( much lower than UK) and will pay income tax on our combined pensions in 2026 when our 10yr zero income tax due to NHR runs out.

Only problem is the EU ID cards that SEF are now trying to get on programme albeit belatedly.
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This is the problem some of my friends now have. 10yrs NHR coming to an end and faced with income tax on their state pensions that is more than what they would pay in UK. They would come under the tax threshold in UK, not so in Portugal.
 
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greeny said:
This is the problem some of my friends now have. 10yrs NHR coming to an end and faced with income tax on their state pensions that is appreciably more than what they would pay in UK. They would come under the tax threshold in UK, not so in Portugal.
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But they are likely to be better off even so.
 
25931 said:
But they are likely to be better off even so.
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Quite possibly when you look at cost of living here. However they've had 10 yrs of no tax and now have to pay it, so they are saying they are having to make necessary spending adjustments and this isn't coming easy as prices are rising everywhere at the moment. They knew it was coming and tried to prepare for it but they're finding it hard. Like state pensioners the world over I guess. At least the heating bills here are relatively small compared to UK.
 
greeny said:
This is the problem some of my friends now have. 10yrs NHR coming to an end and faced with income tax on their state pensions that is more than what they would pay in UK. They would come under the tax threshold in UK, not so in Portugal.
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Yes I have considered that but decided that it's only reasonable to pay your fair share of tax in the place where you live and enjoy the benefits of what that tax brings in infrastructure etc.

I look on the 10yrs tax free as a bonus to help with the cost of resettling here in Portugal.

It does bring home the hypocrisy of being so critical of others that avoid or reduce their tax bills when we are all tempted to take advantage of any tax concessions that enable ourselves to pay less.

Apart from the cost of living increases the other unknown is how much house prices both in UK and Portugal will be effected. Certainly the recent rises are unsustainable but will many people find themselves in negative equity.
 
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greeny said:
Quite possibly when you look at cost of living here. However they've had 10 yrs of no tax and now have to pay it, so they are saying they are having to make necessary spending adjustments and this isn't coming easy as prices are rising everywhere at the moment. They knew it was coming and tried to prepare for it but they're finding it hard. Like state pensioners the world over I guess. At least the heating bills here are relatively small compared to UK.
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greeny said:
Quite possibly when you look at cost of living here. However they've had 10 yrs of no tax and now have to pay it, so they are saying they are having to make necessary spending adjustments and this isn't coming easy as prices are rising everywhere at the moment. They knew it was coming and tried to prepare for it but they're finding it hard. Like state pensioners the world over I guess. At least the heating bills here are relatively small compared to UK.
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At the present time it is the cooling bills that are causing concern.
 
25931 said:
At the present time it is the cooling bills that are causing concern.
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In designing our house in 2019 I went OTT on the insulation plus all windows have electric shutters and each floor has a 1.2m overhang giving shade to the walls and the large sliding doors/windows. While we have underfloor cooling and heating we have never needed the cooling and in winter I still have to open one of our bedroom sliding doors in the night as our body heat alone causes the room to get too hot!

In 2019 I took the view that energy prices were only going one way but did not anticipate the current situation.
 
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greeny said:
Quite possibly when you look at cost of living here. However they've had 10 yrs of no tax and now have to pay it, so they are saying they are having to make necessary spending adjustments and this isn't coming easy as prices are rising everywhere at the moment. They knew it was coming and tried to prepare for it but they're finding it hard. Like state pensioners the world over I guess. At least the heating bills here are relatively small compared to UK.
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But I assume after ten years they will have Portuguese passports? So could move back to the UK or elsewhere in the EU? Sounds like an ideal situation to me to be honest. Just choose what is best. And as people have said they have had ten years to prepare??
 
roblpm said:
But I assume after ten years they will have Portuguese passports? So could move back to the UK or elsewhere in the EU? Sounds like an ideal situation to me to be honest. Just choose what is best. And as people have said they have had ten years to prepare??
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I doubt if many have taken Portuguese citizenship to obtain Portuguese passports.
 
roblpm said:
Why is that? Would seem crazy not to?!!!
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Why? In my case I don't play by the rules and see only negatives in citizenship compared to having dual residence status and keeping UK citizenship, home and tax status.

Majority of Brits who took up residence in the run up to Brexit merely as a 90/180 dodge won't qualify for citizenship (or even renewal of residence) anyway as they won't be able to show settled status, have language skills etc.
 
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