Portugal issue??

[nortada]

Reports are on FB from people who went through the process yesterday and today in Cascais.

I will book Catherine and I's appointments tomorrow. It will be nice to get back to Cascais for a day or so. It's a good place to be resident.

- W

Good to hear but are these temporary Liveaboard residents of no fixed abode?

Whatever, best of luck and please keep us appraised on how you get on.

The hopes of many are riding on a ‘good’ experience for you.????

 

[Sailfree]

Webby. Plse let me know how you get on.

We initially had 5yr residency issued when we bought apartment in Nazare. This expired in March 2021.

Hoping when we finally get appointment with SEF we will get permanent residency EU card.

Not sure whether permanent is given after 5 or 10yrs.

 

[Graham376]

'only' 1974? That is 58 years!
— W

58 years not long enough for major changes here. One of the biggest problems during that period was lifetime contracts for gov employees who they had to find work for so, computers are still used to generate more paper forms rather than simplifying tasks. As you may already have found, visits to departments are often required for what we would deem simple tasks, done over the phone in UK. On arrival take a number and wait then be told you need to visit again with extra documents. On second visit, new official tells you those weren't needed, you need something else. All good fun, it comes as quite a pleasant surprise when something gets sorted at first attempt

 

[Graham376]

Not sure whether permanent is given after 5 or 10yrs.

My 5 year had run out by several years when I applied for permanent but lapse didn't cause any problems as were still in EU. Have heard of a couple of cases during the last few years where applicants for permanent couldn't prove time spent in country so had to start with another temporary period.

 

[Sailfree]

My 5 year had run out by several years when I applied for permanent but lapse didn't cause any problems as were still in EU. Have heard of a couple of cases during the last few years where applicants for permanent couldn't prove time spent in country so had to start with another temporary period.

As all invoices from supermarkets to car purchases are registered with finances surely SEF can easily see you have been resident?

Also completed annual Portuguese tax return and built new house 2019 to 2021.

Or don't the 2 departments talk together?

Thinking further I assume spending statements on my Portuguese Credit card would be an easy way to demonstrate time spent in Portugal.

Wonder how long statements are available

 

[Graham376]

Sailfree, I don't think you'll have any problems, the ones who may are those who took out temporary to try and dodge the 90/180 and then sailed away.

Just had another dose of Portuguese regulations. Chandlery can't sell 33G life jacket CO2 cylinders, jackets have to go away to be serviced and certified! Will pick up spares in Spain next time there.

 

[geem]

Sailfree, I don't think you'll have any problems, the ones who may are those who took out temporary to try and dodge the 90/180 and then sailed away.

Just had another dose of Portuguese regulations. Chandlery can't sell 33G life jacket CO2 cylinders, jackets have to go away to be serviced and certified! Will pick up spares in Spain next time there.

That might be me! It wasn't intentional. They dithered on whether we would get it. Got to 80 days and couldn't take the risk so we sailed to the Caribbean. We got notification we had temporary residency once we arrived in Antigua. We will sail back next summer so will see what happens?

 

[shan]

That might be me! It wasn't intentional. They dithered on whether we would get it. Got to 80 days and couldn't take the risk so we sailed to the Caribbean. We got notification we had temporary residency once we arrived in Antigua. We will sail back next summer so will see what happens?

I don't know if this helps you:

Rights and duties of a residence permit holder – The Official Website of Portuguese Immigration

DUTY TO COMMUNICATE

• Residents have a duty to inform SEF, within 60 days of the occurrence, any alteration to their civil status or place of residence
• The holder of a temporary Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, during the validity period, for a timeframe exceeding six consecutive months or eight unsequential months has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory
• The holder of a permanent Residence Permit who intends to be absent from Portugal, for a period exceeding twenty four consecutive months or, in a timeframe of three years, be absent thirty unsequential months, has a duty to inform SEF before leaving national territory
• The holder of any other Long Term Residence Title, may not be absent from European Union territory for a period equal to or exceeding 12 consecutive months, or from national territory for a period equal to or exceeding six consecutive years, failing which the loss of such title may ensue.
• Students of higher education institution holders of a residence permit may have a remunerated or independent professional activity provided they inform SEF accordingly, by submitting the contract or declaration of employment of the beginning of the activity within the tax authority, as well as a supporting evidence of registration on social security.

 

[roblpm]

It;s not really an application for residency thopugh, is it? It;s just a card to confirm the residency we already have.

They were pretty keen at the end of 2020 to give us residency, in fact after we got it the SEF guy on the desk in Cascais took me into his office and said he thought we should get residency and he could help us. When he heard that we had already got it he was delighted. A bit strange if less than two years later they decided to take it away.

But then, it's Portugal . . . . and our original experience in Cascais was not the same as that of other people elsewhere . . .

- W

My cursory survey of EU countries seems to suggest Portugal is the most open to people with remote or retirement income?

I live in Scotland and my partner is from Colombia. The UK is so hostile to people from elsewhere it's depressing. She can go to Schengen anytime no visa, UK is another story! I'm in Colombia at the moment and the prospect of returning to our tiny island is not filling me with glee!

So can you all let me know when it's calmed down and we might be on our way on a D7 visa......!!

 

[Graham376]

So can you all let me know when it's calmed down and we might be on our way on a D7 visa......!!

Having had residence for years as have friends, not up to date with current immigration situation here. Maybe a trawl of this site will help - Portugal - British Expats

 

[Sailfree]

Currently Portugal is 3rd out of top 10 for US citizens to move to after Mexico and Ecuador IIRC.

Basically Portugal is a welcoming country but only want people that will overall contribute to the countries economy and not make financial demands for income support, social security or healthcare.

Unless you are retired and hence entitled to an S1 form (where NHS pick up cost for Portuguese healthcare) Portugal will require some heathcare insurance in place.


One of the currency firms recently did an article and Portugal required the least amount of money to demonstrate you are financially independant.

Algarve is some 40 % dearer than Silver Coast as it has many ex-pats/UK immigrants that have driven prices up.

Otherwise Portugal has one of the cheapest cost of livings in the EU.

Most US and Canadian citizens that have moved here recently though quoted low crime rate and feeling safe as the biggest attraction to move to Portugal.

When we first considered it in 2016 I posted on here asking advice and saying we intended to visit a number of contributors on here invited me to meet them during our visit and were very helpful.

We arrived in Jan 16 having booked only hotel in Nazare for 1st night and hired a car for 3 weeks. From Lisbon we slowly traveled N to Porto then S to Algarve and finally back to Nazare to confirm our favourite choice.

Happy in a Nazare apartment for almost 4yr but decided we wanted our own large 4 bed house which we had build a few miles inland but for not much more money than we sold the Nazare 3 bed apartment.

One aspects that repeatedly amaze us is how many UK immigrants live here for years and only know a few words of Portuguese as so many Portuguese along coastal regions (especially the young) speaking English. Unlike the French the Portuguese seem much more tolerant of English people that can't speak the local language.

Hope my experience helps you to decide but obviously a visit to understand the potential and decide what climate you prefer is essential.

There are essentially 4 climates, Algarve which is similar to coastal Southern Spain. Inland Portugal (say 30 mls from coast) where climate is hotter and more like inland Spain, Silver Coast (N of Lisbon) where its roughly 8 to 12 degrees hotter than UK bur rarely goes above 30 deg due to sea breeze and has rain but say 50% of UK but enough to be green the finally the N which is generally a bit colder (but still hotter that UK) but has a rainfall more similar to UK.

 

[Graham376]

Many Brits are buying properties in Castelo Branco area, very hot in summer and cold in winter. Semi derelict houses in deserted villages can be had for as little as £10k and £100k will buy somewhere more or less ready to move into with a good few acres of land. Care has to be taken to ensure any property has a habitation license though as some areas have been re-zoned as fire risk with no right to live there.

 

[billskip]

My cursory survey of EU countries seems to suggest Portugal is the most open to people with remote or retirement income?

I live in Scotland and my partner is from Colombia. The UK is so hostile to people from elsewhere it's depressing. She can go to Schengen anytime no visa, UK is another story! I'm in Colombia at the moment and the prospect of returning to our tiny island is not filling me with glee!

So can you all let me know when it's calmed down and we might be on our way on a D7 visa......!!

I know the feeling, my partner is Venezuelan and visited UK visa free back in 2013.
The complications and cost for her to visit UK are not worth the hassle, so we are on Tenerife.
The Spanish have been excellent and exceptionally helpful towards her.

 

[roblpm]

I know the feeling, my partner is Venezuelan and visited UK visa free back in 2013.
The complications and cost for her to visit UK are not worth the hassle, so we are on Tenerife.
The Spanish have been excellent and exceptionally helpful towards her.

Ugh. It's depressing! ? Great that Tenerife is working out and the Spanish are being great!

 

[roblpm]

Currently Portugal is 3rd out of top 10 for US citizens to move to after Mexico and Ecuador IIRC.

Basically Portugal is a welcoming country but only want people that will overall contribute to the countries economy and not make financial demands for income support, social security or healthcare.

Unless you are retired and hence entitled to an S1 form (where NHS pick up cost for Portuguese healthcare) Portugal will require some heathcare insurance in place.


One of the currency firms recently did an article and Portugal required the least amount of money to demonstrate you are financially independant.

Algarve is some 40 % dearer than Silver Coast as it has many ex-pats/UK immigrants that have driven prices up.

Otherwise Portugal has one of the cheapest cost of livings in the EU.

Most US and Canadian citizens that have moved here recently though quoted low crime rate and feeling safe as the biggest attraction to move to Portugal.

When we first considered it in 2016 I posted on here asking advice and saying we intended to visit a number of contributors on here invited me to meet them during our visit and were very helpful.

We arrived in Jan 16 having booked only hotel in Nazare for 1st night and hired a car for 3 weeks. From Lisbon we slowly traveled N to Porto then S to Algarve and finally back to Nazare to confirm our favourite choice.

Happy in a Nazare apartment for almost 4yr but decided we wanted our own large 4 bed house which we had build a few miles inland but for not much more money than we sold the Nazare 3 bed apartment.

One aspects that repeatedly amaze us is how many UK immigrants live here for years and only know a few words of Portuguese as so many Portuguese along coastal regions (especially the young) speaking English. Unlike the French the Portuguese seem much more tolerant of English people that can't speak the local language.

Hope my experience helps you to decide but obviously a visit to understand the potential and decide what climate you prefer is essential.

There are essentially 4 climates, Algarve which is similar to coastal Southern Spain. Inland Portugal (say 30 mls from coast) where climate is hotter and more like inland Spain, Silver Coast (N of Lisbon) where its roughly 8 to 12 degrees hotter than UK bur rarely goes above 30 deg due to sea breeze and has rain but say 50% of UK but enough to be green the finally the N which is generally a bit colder (but still hotter that UK) but has a rainfall more similar to UK.

I'm actually a US citizen as well which doesn't help. In fact im on a waiting list to chuck it in.... ? Have to give them $2300 for the pleasure! I don't think language would be too much problem as my partner already pretends she speaks Portuguese and I could learn. I need to live near the sea.....

 

[Sailfree]

One factor to also consider is your potential popularity with friends and relatives.

One US couple we know bought a 3 bed house on 1st floor with a 2 bed self contained unit underneath for long term visitors from US!

We currently have 4 family visiting which will be 6 next week. Sept and Oct so far we just have 2 sets of visitors for approx 10 days each!

We have in the past insisted visitors get their own BnB local to us.

We also insist we keep up our social life we've when visitors are here which some of our friends have found very hectic. Lots of ex-pat activities.

Big decision for you as France, Italy, Spain and Portugal have nice places but noticeable that most that choose Portugal mention the much lower cost of living as a major factor - effectively you money goes further.

Investigate Portuguse NHR status which is a lower tax regime for 10yrs. Other EU countries complained that to many of their retired population were taking their pensions to Portugal as it was initially 10yrs income tax free but now its just a lower tax rate. We got 10yrs tax free on our pensions.

I believe Italy has some areas where the young have left to get work and hence suffering a population drop that are encouraging immigrants with lower income tax rates.

We love it here and yacht is better in Nazare marina at 8% of the cost of our UK S Coast marina! We will stay here until we can find somewhere better or our circumstance change our requirements but always open minded about hearing about others choices/options.

 

[nortada]

One factor to also consider is your potential popularity with friends and relatives.

One US couple we know bought a 3 bed house on 1st floor with a 2 bed self contained unit underneath for long term visitors from US!

We currently have 4 family visiting which will be 6 next week. Sept and Oct so far we just have 2 sets of visitors for approx 10 days each!

We have in the past insisted visitors get their own BnB local to us.

We also insist we keep up our social life we've when visitors are here which some of our friends have found very hectic. Lots of ex-pat activities.

Big decision for you as France, Italy, Spain and Portugal have nice places but noticeable that most that choose Portugal mention the much lower cost of living as a major factor - effectively you money goes further.

Investigate Portuguse NHR status which is a lower tax regime for 10yrs. Other EU countries complained that to many of their retired population were taking their pensions to Portugal as it was initially 10yrs income tax free but now its just a lower tax rate. We got 10yrs tax free on our pensions.

I believe Italy has some areas where the young have left to get work and hence suffering a population drop that are encouraging immigrants with lower income tax rates.

We love it here and yacht is better in Nazare marina at 8% of the cost of our UK S Coast marina! We will stay here until we can find somewhere better or our circumstance change our requirements but always open minded about hearing about others choices/options.

We did 20 years in Portugal but then a major change of circumstance forced us to return to the UK. Fortunately, we had retained a toehold back in Blighty so the move back wasn’t too difficult so I endorse the statement keep an open mind and try to keep your options open.

 

[roblpm]

We did 20 years in Portugal but then a major change of circumstance forced us to return to the UK. Fortunately, we had retained a toehold back in Blighty so the move back wasn’t too difficult so I endorse the statement keep an open mind and try to keep your options open.

Don't worry I will always keep a place in UK. I will hedge my bets til the end.....!

 

[roblpm]

One factor to also consider is your potential popularity with friends and relatives.

One US couple we know bought a 3 bed house on 1st floor with a 2 bed self contained unit underneath for long term visitors from US!

We currently have 4 family visiting which will be 6 next week. Sept and Oct so far we just have 2 sets of visitors for approx 10 days each!

We have in the past insisted visitors get their own BnB local to us.

We also insist we keep up our social life we've when visitors are here which some of our friends have found very hectic. Lots of ex-pat activities.

Big decision for you as France, Italy, Spain and Portugal have nice places but noticeable that most that choose Portugal mention the much lower cost of living as a major factor - effectively you money goes further.

Investigate Portuguse NHR status which is a lower tax regime for 10yrs. Other EU countries complained that to many of their retired population were taking their pensions to Portugal as it was initially 10yrs income tax free but now its just a lower tax rate. We got 10yrs tax free on our pensions.

I believe Italy has some areas where the young have left to get work and hence suffering a population drop that are encouraging immigrants with lower income tax rates.

We love it here and yacht is better in Nazare marina at 8% of the cost of our UK S Coast marina! We will stay here until we can find somewhere better or our circumstance change our requirements but always open minded about hearing about others choices/options.

Ahaha well I only have about 2 mates and a small family....!

The draw for Portugal is as you say the NHR tax and the D7. Will cover me until my income drops vertically when I stop grafting....

 

[greeny]

Ahaha well I only have about 2 mates and a small family....!

The draw for Portugal is as you say the NHR tax and the D7. Will cover me until my income drops vertically when I stop grafting....

NHR relief doesn't cover everything. Lots of things are still taxed. It's not all it seems if you're still working. Depends on the type and location of the employment. Hopefully you're taking good advice from a good accountant. Just saying because I've been there and done it and was mislead in some areas of the tax relief by my financial person who turned out not to know all he professed. Still an excellent scheme overall though.