Portugal D7 visa

[Graham376]

Even if that were the case, there is no way that that can be verified: there is no migration control within Schengen. You could even fly to Germany and stay there 210 days and no one would know, no one would care. What you cannot do is register in Germany, or work or get social security.

That could be done if in common with other illegal immigrants you were able to stay under the radar but problem with flying is the Schengen database which will log arrival and then eventual departure. Overstay penalties can range from slapped wrists to fines and temporary bans to permanent bans. When arriving by boat all marinas have to submit details to authorities on arrival and presumably departure. SW Spain and Algarve are drug smuggling areas so there's the potential for checks by marine police or customs while underway or at anchor, we've been checked several times during the 15 years boat has been EU based.

 

[nortada]

Even if that were the case, there is no way that that can be verified: there is no migration control within Schengen. You could even fly to Germany and stay there 210 days and no one would know, no one would care. What you cannot do is register in Germany, or work or get social security.

Think you will find that every Schengen country controls it’s external borders but I agree, at present, this information may not be collated centrally but that will change.

I agree probably you could fly into Germany and before 1/1/21 your passport would be scanned but not stamped. Post 31/12/31, unless you had German residency, your passport would be stamped.

I also agree that, you could probably overstay your 90 day welcome undetected but the sh1t could hit the fan when, after 210 days you came to leave the Schengen Zone.

Don’t know Germany but in many EU countries even EU visitors are required to register if they plan to stay for more than 90 days in country. In Portugal, failure to register can carry a €1,500 fine.

If you are discovered overstaying your welcome it will be interesting to see what, if any, sanctions are levied.

All could start to become apparent after 1 Apr this year.

 

[nortada]

That could be done if in common with other illegal immigrants you were able to stay under the radar but problem with flying is the Schengen database which will log arrival and then eventual departure. Overstay penalties can range from slapped wrists to fines and temporary bans to permanent bans. When arriving by boat all marinas have to submit details to authorities on arrival and presumably departure. SW Spain and Algarve are drug smuggling areas so there's the potential for checks by marine police or customs while underway or at anchor, we've been checked several times during the 15 years boat has been EU based.

Don’t tell them your name?

Did you give them any ‘smokes’. Understand they are legal in Portugal

 

[andyc352]

Don’t tell them your name?

Did you give them any ‘smokes’. Understand they are legal in Portugal

To quote Dad’s Army: “Don’t tell him, Pike”

 

[saab96]

Yes some liveaboards reside in the U.K. but many of the regular contributors to this form are expats or long term visitors overseas. What is more they have a common interest in boating so have a good grasp on boatie things abroad so your are probably in a good place.

I find your observation that ‘a D7 could be the answer to Schengen freedom’ interesting. Were life that easy.

Since the 2016 referendum many of us have been exploring every avenue to retain our total freedom of movement in the EU and continue life as before.

If a Portuguese D7 was the answer I suggest it would have come to light in the past 4 1/2 years.

The British Consulate in Lisbon advise me that if I qualify for Portuguese residency I avoid the 90/180 limit in Portugal but not anywhere else in Schengen. Residency is the gift of the nation state not the EU. The fly in the ointment of those who also want to spend time in the UK or in another Schengen country or in the USA or Canada or the Caribbean, as sailors with friends and relatives often do, is that Portuguese residency requires a minimum of 6 months a year in Portugal. And swapping your UK driving licence for Portuguese one if you drive in Portugal. And importing your car, if it’s UK registered. And affects eligibility for health care. And lots of other small details that can come to mess up a roving life. The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, urged the UK Government to allow British nationals to retain a form of ‘Associate Citizenship’ of the European Union. He said: put this at the heart of negotiations about the UK’s future relationship with the EU. Our lazy PM went with the ERG ideologists instead. It’s probably down in the minutes as the EU’s fault.

 

[nortada]

Don’t tell them your name?

Did you give them any ‘smokes’. Understand they are legal in Portugal

To quote Dad’s Army: “Don’t tell him, Pike”

But Graham’s name is not Pike?

 

[nortada]

The British Consulate in Lisbon advise me that if I qualify for Portuguese residency I avoid the 90/180 limit in Portugal but not anywhere else in Schengen. Residency is the gift of the nation state not the EU. The fly in the ointment of those who also want to spend time in the UK or in another Schengen country or in the USA or Canada or the Caribbean, as sailors with friends and relatives often do, is that Portuguese residency requires a minimum of 6 months a year in Portugal. And swapping your UK driving licence for Portuguese one if you drive in Portugal. And importing your car, if it’s UK registered. And affects eligibility for health care. And lots of other small details that can come to mess up a roving life. The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, urged the UK Government to allow British nationals to retain a form of ‘Associate Citizenship’ of the European Union. He said: put this at the heart of negotiations about the UK’s future relationship with the EU. Our lazy PM went with the ERG ideologists instead. It’s probably down in the minutes as the EU’s fault.

Agree all of this so spend more than 6 months in Portugal per year. Don’t drive in Portugal. S1 provides free healthcare in Portugal while retaining the right to free NHS cover when in the U.K. So what is there not to like

It would be nice if Schengen permitted more than 90 days in 180 in other EU states but you can’t have everything.

Actually, once it dawns that 183 days in 365 would be very beneficial to the EU, I suspect after a decent period 90 in 180 could easily become 183 in 365.

 

[syvictoria]

Actually, once it dawns that 183 days in 365 would be very beneficial to the EU, I suspect after a decent period 90 in 180 could easily become 183 in 365.

Whilst I wouldn't be surprised to see some additional national tourist visas becoming available in the coming years, sadly I think that any expectation that the Schengen 90/180 will become 183/365 is somewhat optimistic. It 'could' have been a possible outcome of the trade agreement, but the UK government didn't see fit to pursue this, and now the opportunity would seem to have been lost.

According to Statista - The Statistics Portal, Europe was visited by 745.2 million international tourists in 2019. Of these, about 40.86 visited the UK, making the figure to mainland Europe 700+ million in 2019. The only change as of 1/1/21, is that there are now another 68 million people (UK population) who would be considered international visitors.

How many UK citizens take holidays that exceed 90/180 and do not already have EU dual citizenship or residency elsewhere? A few million??? A tiny proportion of the overall visitors to Europe and likely way short of the numbers needed for the Schengen rule to be revised, especially given that any such change would require either 'special conditions' for UK citizens or would be applicable to all third country visitors.

 

[st599]

Actually, once it dawns that 183 days in 365 would be very beneficial to the EU, I suspect after a decent period 90 in 180 could easily become 183 in 365.

The RYA said at their first webinar that the EU had offered 183 in 365 visa-free entry with far fewer jobs needing a work permit for all UK citizens if the UK reciprocated and offered the same to all EU citizens.

 

[syvictoria]

The RYA said at their first webinar that the EU had offered 183 in 365 visa-free entry with far fewer jobs needing a work permit for all UK citizens if the UK reciprocated and offered the same to all EU citizens.

Ironically, however, the UK does now offer 180/365, albeit with some additional restrictions. The cost of 'regaining control of our borders' was UK citizens' freedoms.

 

[syvictoria]

Sorry, just realised that this thread has descended into another of 'those' threads...! It seems almost inevitable doesn't it? What with the doom, gloom and death that continues to surround us, and the wounds of 31/12/20 still being so raw...

 

[nortada]

As requested by the OP I have read Portugal D7 Visa: the Ultimate Guide

And guess what, it is almost identical to the procedure used by the Americans and Canadians I know to get Portuguese residency. Portuguese Citizenship didn't come into the equation.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Surly by now you guys would have known that some people are so disparate to find a way around the 90/180 rule they will latch on to some thing and no matter what anyone tells them they are not going to believe .
52 post and you still can't get him and others to accept what your saying is correct .
Citizenship or due National of an EU country is the only way around the 90/180 rule legally, yes there other ways but they not legal and there risks involved.
Notada / Graham / SY Victoria your wasting your time they won't listen .
In the mean time the British boats that owners have stayed in our marina have still not had anyone approached them regarding having a passport stamp and one other third country boat ( not British) who time had run out have had his passport stamp to say he left the EU with custom knowing very well he staying for a few more months before leaving .
extended his 90 days, if he waits long enough he could just make it in time to check back in for his next 90 day .

 

[179580]

Surly by now you guys would have known that some people are so disparate to find a way around the 90/180 rule they will latch on to some thing and no matter what anyone tells them they are not going to believe .
52 post and you still can't get him and others to accept what your saying is correct .
Citizenship or due National of an EU country is the only way around the 90/180 rule legally, yes there other ways but they not legal and there risks involved.
Notada / Graham / SY Victoria your wasting your time they won't listen .
In the mean time the British boats that owners have stayed in our marina have still not had anyone approached them regarding having a passport stamp and one other third country boat ( not British) who time had run out have had his passport stamp to say he left the EU with custom knowing very well he staying for a few more months before leaving .
extended his 90 days, if he waits long enough he could just make it in time to check back in for his next 90 day .

Thanks for your input Vic. I hope you allow me the privilege of reply?

Personally, I am not desperate to find a way around the rules, 90/180 well satisfies my needs. This is research for a colleague. He must make his own decision.

On the www, law firms and other organisations are of the opinion that a residency visa allows "Permanent free access to the Schengen area". Yes, I understand the work, study etc situation.

The one useful tip I have gleaned from the now 54 posts is that the Portugese authorities will accept a marina address as a residency. Thank you Nortrada.

Yes, I am listening, however, as I said previously, my colleague must decide which advice to take. That will probably be any legal advice and not Karen down the chip shop.

 

[179580]

As requested by the OP I have read Portugal D7 Visa: the Ultimate Guide

And guess what, it is almost identical to the procedure used by the Americans and Canadians I know to get Portuguese residency. Portuguese Citizenship didn't come into the equation.
te has been updated post
Presumably you noted the statement under the heading "Benefits of the Portugal D7 visa"


Permanent free entry and circulation in the Schengen area.

Note that this site has been updated post Brexit (13/1/2021).

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks for your input Vic. I hope you allow me the privilege of reply?

Personally, I am not desperate to find a way around the rules, 90/180 well satisfies my needs. This is research for a colleague. He must make his own decision.

On the www, law firms and other organisations are of the opinion that a residency visa allows "Permanent free access to the Schengen area". Yes, I understand the work, study etc situation.

The one useful tip I have gleaned from the now 54 posts is that the Portugese authorities will accept a marina address as a residency. Thank you Nortrada.

Yes, I am listening, however, as I said previously, my colleague must decide which advice to take. That will probably be any legal advice and not Karen down the chip shop.

I couldn't agree more , he should go and get legal advise ,
As for me , cod and chips , no salt and some of them chipy bits .

 

[179580]

I couldn't agree more , he should go and get legal advise ,
As for me , cod and chips , no salt and some of them chipy bits .

Tartare sauce or vinegar?

 

[AndersG]

On the www, law firms and other organisations are of the opinion that a residency visa allows "Permanent free access to the Schengen area".

It does give you the right to go to Schengen area but you also belive that it grants you an exception from the 90 days in any 180 days but it does not. The advantage with residency in an EU state is that it can be difficult for an immigration officer to know where you have been.

 

[nortada]

Surly by now you guys would have known that some people are so disparate to find a way around the 90/180 rule they will latch on to some thing and no matter what anyone tells them they are not going to believe .
52 post and you still can't get him and others to accept what your saying is correct .
Citizenship or due National of an EU country is the only way around the 90/180 rule legally, yes there other ways but they not legal and there risks involved.
Notada / Graham / SY Victoria your wasting your time they won't listen .
In the mean time the British boats that owners have stayed in our marina have still not had anyone approached them regarding having a passport stamp and one other third country boat ( not British) who time had run out have had his passport stamp to say he left the EU with custom knowing very well he staying for a few more months before leaving .
extended his 90 days, if he waits long enough he could just make it in time to check back in for his next 90 day .

Morning Vic,

Agree there are those who fly in the face of reality but in addition there an awful lot more honest injuns, who just want the facts, so when a new thoughts hit the street those, like you, with experience and in the know owe it to everyone to get the record straight.

It doesn’t help if it becomes personalised and descend into a slagging match.

But, hey-ho, that’s life.

Keep safe?