Political correctness

[Mirelle]

A Seafarer?

The Missions to Seamen recently became the Missions to Seafarers.

The Code of Safe Working Practices for Merchant Seamen is still called that on the cover, but inside it we find this sort of stuff...

“25.1.1.Based on the findings of the risk assessment, appropriate control measures should be put into place to protect those who may be affected. This chapter highlights some areas which may require attention in respect of anchoring, mooring and towing operations. It is particularly important that the risk assessment considers the risk of failure of any part of the equipment.

25.2.1. Before using an anchor a competent seafarer should check that the brakes are securely on and then clear voyage securing devices. A responsible person should be in charge of the anchoring team, with an adequate communications system with the vessel’s bridge. The anchoring party should wear appropriate safety clothing – safety helmets, safety shoes and goggles as a minimum protection from dirt, rust particles and debris which may be thrown off during the operation. Wherever possible they should stand aft of the windlass...."

Now, the average merchant "seafarer" does not have English as his first language, even on a British ship, not does he usually read much. How is he going to understand this?

Notice the weasel-word "appropriate", incidentally.

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[Myango]

Lets face it however much we aspire to live in a world where no one can possibly take offence at anything we say, write , think or do, it gets a bit daft when we subdue our own culture because we are terrified of being labelled racist, sexist, heightist or any other bloody ist. Live and let live but for God's sake but lets poke fun at each other sometimes without getting all self righteous about it.
When it comes to label gendering (is this a word?) I cannot beleive that anyone, man or woman, really cares that much whether we call them a helmsman or woman or person and if they do care that much then, really, get a life.
The whole point of terminolgy on boats is that it must be exact so that there is no cause for error. With helms anything that is fine but what if I don't want to call my foresail Genny anymore - whats wrong with Peter?

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[Bergman]

Re: A Seafarer?

Always remember, the purpose of this kind of document is not to prevent accidents. it is to enable allocation of blame after the accident. More precisely to ensure that the authority producing the document cannot be blamed whatever the circumstances.

BTB about seafarers

I once had a conversation with a young woman about chartering. She asked how to go about starting a skippered charter business. I told her a yachtmaster and professional endorsement was the first step.

"Oh" she said, "won't my Masters Certificate do?"

Again I once referred to a young lady employee at a marina as "the berthing mistress"

Fraid I'm not very good at this PC stuff

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[Jacket]

Not sure they're being sexist. I'll always ask to speak to someone technical when phoning a company, because most places have total incompetents manning (sorry, personing) the phones. Unfortunately, when you are passed on, you end up speaking to someone just as incompetent.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Worry about PC if you must

but most people just rub along as best they can.

Organizations on the other hand are hamstrung by well meaning cobblers about gender issues, people of colour, special people and age-ism. God knows what it all costs.

If you want me to celebrate your differences, well you can ask. Your unlikely to get my respect by drawing attention to them though.

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[bigmart]

I know what you mean but the give away is the shock in their voice when they realise that a woman can handle techie stuff. The is the building industry we are talking about. Mostly its run by Dinosaurs.

Martin

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[Peppermint]

Re: At a family run nursery near here

there is a sign. It says. "Do you wish to speak to the man in charge or the woman who knows whats going on"

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[LadyInBed]

Re: A Seafarer?

windlass! tut, tut, very nonPC

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[Gunfleet]

shurely navigatrix?

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[TheBoatman]

Thats interesting. I always thought that the helm was the actual piece of kit used to steer the boat not the person steering it.
Adds a whole new meaning to saying "OK you TAKE the helm"<s>. After all she might object to being TAKEN.

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[davidhand]

Never call a Scotsman an Englishman

I was sitting having a chat in a Y.C. bar with a bloke I know from Edinburgh when up comes this Yank (lots of them about in San Francisco) friendly as you can be and refers to us collectively as these two English guys. I knew my friend wasn't going to let that go by, but he really excelled himself this time and the poor guy got a twenty minute lecture on the difference between England and Scotland.

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[knowot]

re; pc

Hu-man?

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[snowleopard]

Re: Never call a Scotsman an Englishman

or call a kiwi an aussie or a canadian a yank.

or indeed any member of a small nation who are paranoid about their larger neighbour

what is the geographical equivalent of 'vertically challenged'?

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[Mirelle]

And don\'t mention the War!

I was having a drink with a Californian lawyer and a couple of Australian colleagues, a few years back, when our American guest very politely said how much he admired Churchill......he was treated to 20 minutes on the iniquities of Gallipoli, the Mesopotamian campaign, why Omdurman was all wrong, the Fall of Singapore, Breaker Morant and why the Dingo Was Innocent (I have forgotten why that was Churchill's fault!)

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[Mirelle]

Lord Cardigan, the Hero of Balaclava, was once asked, by his professional skipper, "If he would care to take the helm?" He replied that he never took anything between meals....

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[nicho]

Re: I think intolerant people should be shot (nm)

I simply cannot STAND intolerence

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[Magic_Sailor]

Violetta asked me

To say what the point was that I felt difficult to discuss - well here goes. You may find it trivial but if so, it demonstrates the way PC confines us and restricts comms.

Violetta mentioned she was slightly miffed about a chap walking by here boat and assuming she was the crew and not as is the case the skipper (and no doubt a very good one - creep creep).

My immediate reaction was - well what do you expect - the vast majority of skippers are men and the vast majority of crew are women. We all need to make some initial assumptions about what confronts us at a given time. One can't go through a whole series of preparatory questions everytime one is confronted with a new situation just to ensure we don't step over some artificially imposed PC boundary. It gets too stupid for words. For instance

My Wife gets annoyed when people call her Ms. She is (rightfully I think) proud of her marital status. So, anybody talking to her would actually have to do a bit of reverse PC to get it right. A minefield.

One of my old bosses was a lady. She once told me that she objected to a man holding the door open for her and that it was condescending. What complete tosh. From my point of view (49 years old) I was always taught to hold a door open and let a lady pass through - I never felt condescending. To not do this actually makes me feel pretty bad. So, to assuage her ridiculous bloody notion (and ensure my pay rise) I had to go around being rude and feeling bad about it.

So, there are a range of issues to which I object - I'll list some without going into detail, I'm sure you'll see which side of the fence I'm on.

1. Person hole cover, chair person etc etc.
2. Chivalry.
3. The lack of kudos afforded the houswife and mother (the single most important job in the world bar none).
4. Women in front line armed forces jobs.
5. The inability to communicate properly.
6. The desire of some women to be like a "stereotypical bloke" - loutish behaviour.
7. The belief that being feminine is somehow something to be ashamed of.
8. The belief that having old fashioned feminine skills is a waste of time.
9. The inability of us all to properly discuss any matter to do with race for fear of being branded a racist.
10. Ditto gender, colour, class, height, weight, etc etc etc etc etc.

Interestingly there is no such thing as ageism - legally.

I can't go on (literally!) I'm sure you get the idea.

Magic

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[jhr]

Re: Violetta asked me

<Interestingly there is no such thing as ageism - legally>

No, not yet, but legislation making it illegal to discriminate in employment on grounds of age is in the pipeline (implementation in 2005, I think), and the rest will follow.

The older I get, the more I approve of this development ;-)

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[Violetta]

Magic...Magic.....

What you have read into my post!!!!!

I was miffed? Did I say that?
I was the skipper? Did I say that?

If I was ever miffed about such things I grew out of that long ago. It was just another variant - a mild and harmless one - of what I have experienced over and over again throughout my sailing career. And yes - you are right - I am the skipper sometimes. He is at other times. We are interchangeable.

I'm afraid it was really a bit of a windup. I am always fascinated by what people read into things - and anything like this brings a flood of defensive projection - "not me, guv - look, my wife takes the helm when we moor!" "Where's your sense of humour!" "Political correctness gone mad!" "We can't be expected to....!" Very predictable, still, although things are certainly changing.

You know what, though. I really would love to meet, in cyberspace, the guy who has the guts to acknowledge that I was illustrating a simple truth AND the generosity to acknowledge that it might be a bit irritating to be an independent sailor, an instructor, a qualified and experienced skipper, who is assumed, over and over again, to be the subordinate one. In fact, you don't know the half of it and I'm not going to tell you. (Believe me, this was totally innocuous by comparison with some and I had a most pleasant chat with the bloke concerned) But you and most men wouldn't like it one bit. (Where's your sense of humour, guys?) I have encountered one such sailor on the internet. He still posts here occasionally and I suspect he knows who I mean. Relaxed enough not to be threatened by this.

In fact, the assumption I was illustrating has real consequences for women sailors. I could tell you about them, but why bother? It goes nowhere. We just live with it. But, oh boy, could I tell you some tales..........

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[Mirelle]

The Last Word in PC

Driving home up the A12 this evening I heard Martin McGuiness actually say,

"I don't believe that the IRA will want to use British words".

I was not aware that words had nationality. I thought they were free.

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