Political correctness

[Magic_Sailor]

Bigmart made a comment in one of the "licencing" threads that I have a great deal of sympathy with! (shock, horror).

He mentioned political correctness - the doing away with (to paraphrase). It struck a chord.

There have been a number of times recently (and they're on the increase) when we've been discussing some topic or other (both saily and non-saily) where I've wanted to make a point but have been unable to write down what I actually think for fear of political correctness.

Now, I STRESS, I'm not talking about a comment designed to inflame, be aggressive or rude. Just normal stuff. In fact, I find I cannot give you examples for the very same reason. So, two questions:

Does anyone else feel like this?

What can we do about this cancer which is becoming a bar to free communication in all walks of life?

Yours, getting ready to duck again

Magic


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[snowleopard]

I think intolerant people should be shot (nm)

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[jimi]

Sassenach sissy

Do'nt be a woofter just say it, ya wee nancy!

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[Violetta]

A Horse

What do you see? A carthorse? A racehorse? A hack? A hunter? The black Lloyds horse? A gym horse? A horse with a mainsheet attached? A sand horse at the mouth of a river? A clothes horse?

I wonder if you mean the same as I would if I used the term "political correctness?
Matter of curiosity - what's your definition?

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[bigmart]

I feel that I should inject some argument into the debate. Perhaps it would be sensible for me to explain the kind of political correctness that gets up my nose.

In yachty terms lets take the term "Helmsman". To me the "Helmsman" is the person that steers the boat & is a valued member of the crew regardless of gender. When people try to make the term gender specific they belittle the skill of the "Helmsman". e.g. "Helmswoman" (subtext says ooh look at me I'm a girlie & I am being allowed to steer this big frightening boat).

Now I am sure the arguments can run a lot deeper than I have stated here but this is a start. As Magic implies, let the deluge begin.

Is it me Magic, or are we arguing on the same side?

Martin

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[halcyon]

Should we have a pick-up person, or a mooring person?

Brian

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[bigmart]

That would depend on whether you wanted to be "Phonetically Correct" as well.

Martin

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[phanakapan]

Political correctness is not new really- there have always been social constraints against the way we speak or behave- I'm sure there has been many an occasion when you have observed these (not swearing in front of your mother maybe!) without feeling that your freedom of speech has been compromised. I agree that it can be taken to excess (personhole cover etc) but I think pc is a small price to pay if it makes someone stop for one second and consider whether their remarks could offend - or even mildly niggle someone- unnecessarily. And I think we need to be particularly careful on a forum which hopefully people of all genders, races, sexual persuasions and political or religious backgrounds would feel welcome.

From a 'SWMBO' who hates the term however innocently used!

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[phanakapan]

What's wrong with simply saying 'helm'? or skipper or navigator- plenty of terms around which are non gender specific.

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[Jacket]

To me the helm's the bit you steer with, not the person doing the steering.

This is what annoys me about political correctness. If I say 'helsman' isn't it fairly obvious that I'm not saying 'the person steering must be male because females aren't capable' but that I'm using the word because its what sounds natural due to it being the term thats been used since I was born? Maybe its not.


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[Jacket]

I can't be bothered with trying to appear to be PC. Those people who I want as friends know me well enough to recognise that I'm reasonably fair and unbiased, despite my sense of humour. Those people who can't see this, I probably can't be bothered with anyway.

However, I guess that when I come to look for a real job I'll have to change. Either that or move to Australia. What's the sailing like down there?

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[bigmart]

I knew when I wrote it that some bright spark would pick up on that point. The examples that I used may not be the ideal because, as you say, there are aleternatives but the point is really the same. To take the argument as far as person hole covers is to extend to the rediculous but what is the difference.

I run a company that sells components to the building industry & the majority of the time ladies answer the phone to our customers. It is with a mixture of irritation & satisfaction when yet another male ego is deflated when a customer asks "Can I speak to somebody technical." to get the response "Yes sir what can I help you with".

At the end of the day I suppose you could ask yourself, do you want to speak to me? With the instant response that lets you read my personality or would you prefer to speak to someone who is, so scared of putting a foot out of place, that every word is so considered that everything I say is so sanitised there is barely a trace of the real me.

Martin

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[peterb]

Last Thursday I ordered a skip to be delivered to my house. "Yes sir, late afternoon". 4-50pm, no skip. Ring up, answered by young, feminine voice; "But it's been delivered!"

Investigation showed that it had been delivered; to the right address but in the wrong town! Girl's voice said "All our drivers have gone home now; won't be back till Tuesday. Hang on a minute ........ OK. Should be with you about 6."

Sure enough, about 6 the skip lorry turns up and the driver (who'd already picked up the skip from the wrong house) put it down inch-perfect in my drive. It was the young and attractive office girl, who'd decided that the skip couldn't be left blocking someone else's driveway over Easter so she'd move it herself.

Yes, I know I shouldn't have been surprised, but I doubt if I would have got the same precision from a man!

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[Sybarite]

At the last American firm I worked with I was taken to task for referring to the firm's manpower numbers.

What is womankind coming to?

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[Magic_Sailor]

I think we are!

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

I mostly agree - let's stop and think.

But it's gone too far. Violletta made a perfectly good point recently that I didn't totally agree with - but I couldn't answer as I wanted for fear of PC. Discussions about the Iraq situation likewise.

Magic



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[Magic_Sailor]

Because that way lies the person hole cover.

Magic

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[Violetta]

What point was that, Magic?

Aren't you being a tad evasive? For myself, I would be most interested to learn what point you thought I made and to discuss it with you. Come on - be brave!

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[Violetta]

A cancer?

The petty silliness of gender neutrality in language? Something to emigrate for? Gosh! Such hyperbole. And something you won't even define?

Political correctness ranges from the infinitely silly (I had some stuff from Hackney Council in the dear dead days before New Labour that referred to "redprints" instead of "blueprints") through the extremely toxic (people being disciplined or even sacked for not knowing the right words) to the necessary and appropriate (such as not using the word "spastic" to mean hopeless or "mentally subnormal" or "retard" to describe people with Down's syndrome)

Similarly, political incorrectness. It can be harmless and it can express dismissive, demeaning, callous or vicious attitudes towards other people - especially whole groups of other people. Dehumanising people, especially whole groups, is a dangerous path. That's the cancer.

So, what is you are talking about? It's not so simple as you make out. Often, it's trivial. Sometimes it's a knee jerk substitute for thought about what you are saying and thinking.

Life's difficult. Other people are annoying. It's the way it is. Get used to it.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: What point was that, Magic?

Violletta

Not being evasive. I've got to go out now - sailing! (There's not a moment to be lost). Back tomorrow night. I'll answer then - and your other point below.

Magic

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