Polish registration?

Lomax said:
That appears to be incorrect. My reading of the RYA's explanation is that a boat that is registered in an EU nation and owned by an EU citizen will retain its VAT paid status after Dec 31st, even if it is not in EU waters at that time. With a British flag that would not be the case. Or do you have some other information?
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The EU has RGR just like the UK and many boats (of various flags) normally based there are out and about in all parts of the world, An EU resident (doesn't have to be citizen) can return to the EU with his/her VAT paid boat (under the same ownership as when exported) and claim RGR, just as a UK owner can when returning to the UK. UK boats based there with non resident owners remain VAT paid and in free movement. If they leave the EU for an extended period, I don't think a non-resident can claim RGR when returning, which in effect is what's being said about UK boats in the UK on 31/12.
 
All this moving boats for December 31st, you lot are going to silly if talks drag on to the first week of January
 
Bouba said:
All this moving boats for December 31st, you lot are going to silly if talks drag on to the first week of January
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That will hardly make any difference - if boats are in the right place for each owner on 31st January then an extended transition period just means they will remain in the right place.
 
RupertW said:
Weird - I just can’t see that section in the link you shared
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That may be because I changed the headline from "EU registered boats" to "EU registered boat lying in UK at 11pm UTC on 31 December 2020", since that is the section it belongs to; I didn't want to copy the whole section - the relevant bit was long enough I thought! If you want to read the whole thing look for the section headed "Taking your boat to the EU27 from 1 January 2021".
 
Graham376 said:
The EU has RGR just like the UK and many boats (of various flags) normally based there are out and about in all parts of the world, An EU resident (doesn't have to be citizen) can return to the EU with his/her VAT paid boat (under the same ownership as when exported) and claim RGR, just as a UK owner can when returning to the UK. UK boats based there with non resident owners remain VAT paid and in free movement. If they leave the EU for an extended period, I don't think a non-resident can claim RGR when returning, which in effect is what's being said about UK boats in the UK on 31/12.
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I will cease to be an EU resident on Dec 31st. However I will continue to be an EU citizen. As such, I have the right to flag my boat with an EU flag, which should ensure the RGR applies - as long as my boat returns (to the EU) within three years. Currently in a stupidly long telephone queue to the tax authority in my home country (started at #101!), hoping they can provide some clarity.
 
Irish Rover said:
Absolutely correct and I'm only quoting your post to re-emphasise the point you've made. Neither the registration state/flag of a boat or the nationality/citizenship of its owner has anything to do with the VAT status of the boat.
If the boat is sold outside the EU it will lose its VAT paid status.
If the boat leaves the EU for more than 3 years it MAY lose its VAT paid status.
If the boat is flying a non EU flag it would be advisable to have your papers to hand proving its VAT paid status and the boat's physical presence in the EU on 01/01/21.
I simply cannot see why the owner of a UK registered boat in the EU would be bothered going to all the trouble and expense of moving to the Polish, Belgian, Irish or any other register. The SSR is such an excellent scheme for leisure boats and other countries do not have streamlined, online systems like OFCOM for registering your VHF, AIS, EPIRB etc. Try getting a ships radio licence in Ireland and see what I mean.
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For a boat to be registered in Belgium, it must be at least 50% owned by a Belgian entity

I'm open to offers ... ;)
 
Lomax said:
I will cease to be an EU resident on Dec 31st. However I will continue to be an EU citizen. As such, I have the right to flag my boat with an EU flag, which should ensure the RGR applies - as long as my boat returns (to the EU) within three years. Currently in a stupidly long telephone queue to the tax authority in my home country (started at #101!), hoping they can provide some clarity.
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I have no idea whether a non resident citizen (as opposed to someone resuming residence/ moving back home) can claim RGR, will be interesting to hear their reply.
 
RupertW said:
It’s the other way round - registration doesn’t matter at all for VAT status.

And I have certainly been asked to show proof of VAT status - though not for some years. I suspect that will happen again post Brexit but that is just a guess.
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In the UK, this is indeed the case.
My previous, previous boat was registered in the UK.
SSR was straightforward and easy to come by.

However, not all countries adopt the same light touch approach when it comes to boat registration.
Current boat is not registered in the UK but in a EU27 country.
I had to provide proof of nationality or residence, proof of ownership, proof of VAT status and proof of CE compliance (or exemption) both for the boat and the engine.
 
Koeketiene said:
In the UK, this is indeed the case.
My previous, previous boat was registered in the UK.
SSR was straightforward and easy to come by.

However, not all countries adopt the same light touch approach when it comes to boat registration.
Current boat is not registered in the UK but in a EU27 country.
I had to provide proof of nationality or residence, proof of ownership, proof of VAT status and proof of CE compliance (or exemption) both for the boat and the engine.
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You are agreeing with I think that registration doesn’t matter at all for VAT status in any EU country.

However you are saying that VAT status matters for VAT in some EU countries but not the UK.

That’s what I meant by “the other way round”.
 
Tax authority confirmed that VAT would be due on a boat brought across from the UK after Dec. 31st. They could not say whether an EU flag would make any difference, and directed me to customs. They too confirmed that I would have to pay VAT on a boat I brought into the EU from the UK after Dec. 31st, but again did not know whether or not that would apply to an EU flagged boat. That's all I know after a full day spent on the phone. I did get the name & number of someone at the customs authority who may know what's what, and will call them first thing in the morning. Tired now.
 
Lomax said:
Tax authority confirmed that VAT would be due on a boat brought across from the UK after Dec. 31st. They could not say whether an EU flag would make any difference, and directed me to customs. They too confirmed that I would have to pay VAT on a boat I brought into the EU from the UK after Dec. 31st, but again did not know whether or not that would apply to an EU flagged boat. That's all I know after a full day spent on the phone. I did get the name & number of someone at the customs authority who may know what's what, and will call them first thing in the morning. Tired now.
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Of course - what we have known for years unfortunately as all the previous threads on this have attested to. Just a small thing - it really doesn’t help posting things that look official but that you have decided to modify yourself to make a point that the official site itself doesn’t make clear.
 
I have to defend my honour, so here is the original text, verbatim, with the original outline (though any inline links will be missing):

Taking your boat to the EU27 from 1 January 2021​
​
National interpretation and implementation​
The European Commission has provided guidance on the legislation. The practical interpretation and implementation of that legislation is the responsibility of the authorities of the country in which you are entering the EU27.​
​
​
​
Boat lying in UK at 11pm UTC on 31 December 2020​
According to information received from the European Commission on 30 October 2020, and contrary to previous advice, the flag state of a boat which was lying in the UK may have some bearing on its eligibility to re-enter the EU27 as returned goods.​
​
The European Commission has confirmed that, although a boat which was lying in the UK at the end of the transition period will lose its Union status as soon as the transition period ends, if the previous Union status can be proven upon arrival in the Union, the Union status can be regained. How this is achieved is different for EU registered boats and non-EU registered boats.​
​
Non-EU registered (flagged) boats​
If the boat is not registered in the EU, upon re-entering the EU customs territory it will be treated as any other third-country goods and to acquire Union status it will need to be placed under release for free circulation in the EU.​
​
If you are established (habitually resident) in the UK you will become eligible to take your boat, which must be registered outside the EU27, to the EU27 for up to 18 months under temporary admission (conditions apply). For further information see EU returned goods relief and temporary admission.​
​
EU registered boats​
If the yacht is registered in the EU and on the condition that the requirements of Article 203 of the Union Customs Code (UCC) are met, the boat may be released for free circulation as returned goods according to Article 203 UCC on the condition that the declarant is established in the customs territory of the Union. The customs declaration may be lodged orally.​
​
Where the declarant is not established in the EU, the possibility of an exception will need to be checked with customs.​
​
Caution: ​
​
Please think carefully before changing the registration of your boat to an EU member state:​
​
If customs turn down the possibility of an exception to the declarant being established in the EU, a boat which is registered in the EU will still not be eligible for Temporary Admission. You may therefore end up in a worse position than if your boat remains UK flagged.​
​
If you register your boat in another country you then have to comply with that country’s legislation. That could entail having that country’s evidence of competence (which might involve a test in the country’s language), compulsory carriage of equipment, etc.​
 
Since only the subsection about "EU registered boats" was relevant, rather than put you all through reading the non-relevant bits (would you have?) I copied only that subsection. But now the context was lost, so I had to make it clear that this applies to "Boat lying in UK at 11pm UTC on 31 December 2020", hence the headline became "EU registered boat lying in UK at 11pm on 31 December 2020". For reasons of ettiquette I will refrain from telling you what I think if you think that is IN ANY WAY misleading. In hindsight, perhaps I should have included the original heading and just "..." the irrelevant bits - but that is not a quick & easy bit of editing compared to copy-pasting together the two headings. I did provide a link to the page it was copied from, so anyone who was in any doubt could verify for themselves that the intention and meaning of the contents of my post was in every way identical to the original text. I'm careful about such things.
 
Let get something straight Polish reg isn't a scam many non Pol use it , the Italian for a start because of their rule re sailing boat and for tax reaaon so do Greeks any many now who can no longer get SSR or Dutch reg are moving to it ,
now that said.
Why would any brit want to register under EU country flag ?
Rightly as it been said its nothing to do with flag re vat or the 90/180 day rules, but here the interesting bit .UK flag boats are going to have to keep prove that the boat was in the EU end of this year and probably keep that unti. They sell the boat , EU citizen don't, its taken for granted that as long as they have a vat paid invoice they are EU vat paid ,
Its more lightly a British flag boat may be asked for VAT prove then an EU boat although I doubts there be anyone asking for any vat prove but hey who knows .
 
sailaboutvic said:
Let get something straight Polish reg isn't a scam many non Pol use it , the Italian for a start because of their rule re sailing boat and for tax reaaon so do Greeks any many now who can no longer get SSR or Dutch reg are moving to it ,
now that said.
Why would any brit want to register under EU country flag ?
Rightly as it been said its nothing to do with flag re vat or the 90/180 day rules, but here the interesting bit .UK flag boats are going to have to keep prove that the boat was in the EU end of this year and probably keep that unti. They sell the boat , EU citizen don't, its taken for granted that as long as they have a vat paid invoice they are EU vat paid ,
Its more lightly a British flag boat may be asked for VAT prove then an EU boat although I doubts there be anyone asking for any vat prove but hey who knows .
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It's also a lot cheaper and the rules are a lot less in Poland than in Belgium, plus it's for the life of the boat, where as in some other countries it is only for a few years before having to renew the registration at the same cost again.
 
Hi, could anyone help with tax related question?
I'd like to buy a boat for the first time.
The boat was made in Europe, owned by an individual (not a company).
Thus, once VAT was paid in Europe.
Then a few years ago the boat was sold to a company registered in the state of Delaware, USA. The boat was also registered there, in the state of Delaware.
I think this is some kind of tax offshore, 'cos the boat itself was remaining in Europe.
I'd like to buy this boat and legalize it in Europe, under the Polish flag.
The question is, do I have to pay VAT again?
If I took such action in relation to the car, I would have to pay customs clearance (not VAT).
Is it the same with the boat?
 
lifestyler said:
I'd like to buy this boat and legalize it in Europe, under the Polish flag.
The question is, do I have to pay VAT again?
If I took such action in relation to the car, I would have to pay customs clearance (not VAT).
Is it the same with the boat?
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If the boat has remained in EU and VAT was paid and not reclaimed by a company, it is still VAT paid there.

If you are UK citizen, why Polish flag?
 
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