Plotter or Laptop

[oakleyb]

i have a laptop that i could use but also like the idea of having a proper plotter. Obvious concerns with a laptop are power consumption decent chart software - your thoughts appreciated

 

[Porthandbuoy]

SeaClear

i have a laptop that i could use but also like the idea of having a proper plotter. Obvious concerns with a laptop are power consumption decent chart software - your thoughts appreciated

I'm using SeaClear on a Samsung notebook with a bluetooth usb GPS reciever. The notebook has a 12Vdc 'brick'. My setup works fine and will even interface with AIS (when funds permit).

The only problem, for some, is the need to scan in your own charts unless you fork out £££ for admiralty raster charts.

Using the PC I can plan routes and add waypoints. My track is recorded for future playback as well.

And SeaClear is free, which is always a plus.

 

[oldsaltoz]

i have a laptop that i could use but also like the idea of having a proper plotter. Obvious concerns with a laptop are power consumption decent chart software - your thoughts appreciated

I suspect you have answered your own question, I take my laptop on board but use plotter for all things navigation.

Plotting on a computer can be time consuming and cumbersome, the touch screen and simple controls of the plotter make it fast and simple, it's right there in front of you when steering and you don't need all sorts or precaustions to protect it from a little moisture.

 

[Playtime]

Plotting on a computer can be time consuming and cumbersome, the touch screen and simple controls of the plotter make it fast and simple, it's right there in front of you when steering and you don't need all sorts or precaustions to protect it from a little moisture.

Disagree. Route planning on the PC is, IMHO, quicker and can be done in comfort, either at home (I do all my route planning for longer passages at home) or in the comfort of the saloon, rather than perched at the helm.

Regarding "precautions to protect from a little moisture" I am on only my second 'boat' laptop in over 10 years. The first was a 66MHz Siemens 'brick' that died with a video chip problem 4 years ago and the current machine is a 266MHz Dell Inspiron, bought second hand on eBay. Damp or motion have never been a problem.

Power drain can be a problem but a decent house battery and charging system can easily cope.

I run Maptech with 'proper' Admiralty charts (full folio from Denmark to Gibraltar (over 1000 charts) around £90); ditto for all of the UK and Ireland.

However, I am currently experimenting with OpenCPN (free from SourceForge) and the full set of CM93 (C-Map) charts that can be downloaded free using BitTorrent (search for old threads on the subject; it has had quite an airing in recent weeks). The charts look very 'noddy' compared with the Admiralty ones, but I might get used to them and I can't complain about the price! You can overlay AIS on the charts (but I haven't tried it yet)

The biggest drawback of a laptop is that it lives 'downstairs' so detailed pilotage can be a bit tiring on the old legs. To overcome this, last season I experimented with a PDA loaded with the same charts and a bluetooth GPS 'puck. Works a treat for hand held conning for the tricky bits.

Why spend hundreds (thousands even) on a dedicated chartplotter when you can have all the flexibility of a laptop

 

[Stu Jackson]

There are really three electronic choices:

--- plotter
--- laptop
--- handheld

I got into a discussion recently and posited that a handheld, like a Garmin GPSMap76Cx, is really just a small plotter.

If you do your large scale planning on a paper chart, input routes and waypoints with the software that comes with a handheld (or via the handheld, but more cumbersome) you don't have the expense of either a chartplotter or a laptop.

This assumes you aren't off on a long voyage. If so, then at least a laptop would be suggested. Whatever you choose to use at the helm is up to you, but the screens on many chartplotters aren't that much bigger than a handheld so close-in navigating after you've done your route planning on the computer or charts is the same on both handhelds or the smaller chartplotters..

Your boat, your choice. Like many things in life there's not a "best", like boats, there are compromises.

 

[Richard10002]

The best place for your plotter, (whether it be dedicated or laptop), is on deck at the helm, with a facility to swivel it so it can be seen from in front of the wheel when on autopilot.

Unless you can waterproof your laptop, a dedicated plotter is the best solution - no brainer.

With a second power supply below, the plotter can be used for planning in the comfort of the chart table if you wish, but I must admit to usually inputting the route, on the fly, at the wheel whilst leaving port

You can get a Lowrance with Nauticpath charts for about £400, (the charts arent brilliant, but I found them fine for most of the route from UK to Malta and back.

 

[Samakand]

Laptops use lots of power, have screens that are hard in comparison to see in daylight, and are a worry when wet and rough. They are invariably down below, excellent for planning, receiving emails, weather forecasts, grib files, ais etc. They take up space as need a flat secure place to sit, and slide if placed on charts.
I have one (third, but they are remarkably robust), and a hand held GPS. I would rather have a chartplotter or handheld charting GPS (as well).

 

[Playtime]

D
.... I am currently experimenting with OpenCPN (free from SourceForge) and the full set of CM93 (C-Map) charts .....
You can overlay AIS on the charts (but I haven't tried it yet).

For anyone interested I have now tried the AIS overlay feature in OpenCPN and can report that it works well. In fact, I will try using it for real (when I next venture beyond the lock gates), in place of the Yacht AIS display I have been using for a couple of years. The main advantage is that you can see the ships on the chart but can adjust the visible chart detail to remove all the usual clutter (lights, depths etc.) that tend to 'hide' the ships you want to see. The main reason I favoured Yacht AIS up to now is the absence of a chart; it presents the AIS info in a radar type display (i.e. no chart) so all you can see are the AIS targets. However, OpenCPN, with just the bare chart features visible, might actually work better in practice.

For the trial this morning I was berthed in Port Solent but observed ships out to the Nab and beyond (using the NASA AIS Engine and push pit mounted antenna).

Targets are displayed as triangles with velocity leaders (length depends on the set up parameters) and they change colour depending on the threat level. At one point I was in danger of being hit (in 20 minutes) by St Clare (the IOW car ferry) as it was entering the harbour. The display of this 'danger' was very clear - red triangle with red 'cloud' around it plus a loud audible warning - at least as good as Yacht AIS.

For a software freebie, I am warming to OpenCPN. However, for actual navigation (and route planning) I will stick with Maptech and the Admiralty. Fortunately, I can have both Maptech and OpenCPN running at the same time (on a 266MHz laptop!), sharing the single GPS input (using Franson GPS Gate). Don't you just love technology when it works!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

You can get a Lowrance with Nauticpath charts for about £400, (the charts arent brilliant, but I found them fine for most of the route from UK to Malta and back.

Nauticpath charts now discontinued.

 

[fireball]

That's excellent news - cos I was just trying to sort out a machine to put aboard our boat with good AIS display ... the Standard Horizon CP180i does do AIS, but it's pretty crummy ...
If you're after another AIS display then SHIPPLOTTER (isn't free - but is pretty cheap) is another option - the demo of this was blumming good - even showed a curve where there was rate of turn info - it is a shame that it has to be down below ...

I'm working on getting a smaller monitor that can sit behind a sealed sheet and run off a USB or additional VGA port ... sunlight will be the problem though ..

 

[AngusMcDoon]

For anyone interested I have now tried the AIS overlay feature in OpenCPN and can report that it works well...

Works for me too. This is what it looks like...

This is using AIS from a Navicom RT-650 combined DSC VHF and AIS. I was getting reception of ships on the Mersey from here in Peelyweely last night, about 70 miles away.

 

[AlexB]

I was very interested in your reference to using a PDA for navigation. I have one but only use it for diary/tel nos. etc. I was given it by my employer. I would be very interested in any advice you would impart re which charts you have in the PDA and where to purchase them and what they cost. I am very much a novice in IT so any advice you could give me would be greatly apprecaited. The 'simpler' the better.

 

[steveparker]

There seem to be quite a few secondhand 'ruggedized' laptops appearing on Ebay these days. I picked up an Itronix military grade 'Gobook' laptop for about £150 recently. No problems with waterproofing etc as you can spray these things with a hosepipe or drive a car over them and they keep working. The screen display is designed for easy viewing and even has two night settings so it doesn't totally screw your night vision. It's got an illuminated keyboard and touchscreen controls and runs on 12 volts. I'm running Maxsea and CMap on it, and so far it seems pretty fantastic. The 3D function on Maxsea is fun too as it allows you to see exactly what the shape of the seabed is that you're sailing over. I haven't got an up to date chartplotter to compare it to, but this is definitely as good as I need.

And I can play DVDs on it on the mooring...

Steve.

 

[maxi77]

I was very interested in your reference to using a PDA for navigation. I have one but only use it for diary/tel nos. etc. I was given it by my employer. I would be very interested in any advice you would impart re which charts you have in the PDA and where to purchase them and what they cost. I am very much a novice in IT so any advice you could give me would be greatly apprecaited. The 'simpler' the better.

I have tried using a PDA for navigation and whilst you can the display is a bit on the small side and I found a standard handheld with way points just as good. I now have a SH 300 plotter which has an acceptable size display and am now working on a laptop with Imray charts as my back up.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

You would think that 20 years in the computer industry would make me favour the PC route. In fact, it is the opposite. I would hate to have to trust my life to anything that needed Microsoft Windows to work. If there was a truly viable Mac alternative I would consider it, but I have recently reviewed all the Mac navigation stuff and it is too limited and difficult to integrate.

So, my view is to get a proper chart plotter. They are good value for what they deliver, and being designed for a single purpose they are robust.

By all means have a PC for planning etc. but on a cold dark night the last thing you want is "the blue screen of death".

 

[sailorman]

Does the average 26 footer need PC navigation. i very much doubt it, most wont get out of the Solent let alone X Channel

 

[Richard10002]

Does the average 26 footer need PC navigation. i very much doubt it, most wont get out of the Solent let alone X Channel

I remember my father saying "I've just spent about two grand on instruments and plotter stuff - I only go as far as Fowey!!". He lives in Falmouth

Having said that, some 26 footers go round the world.

 

[Playtime]

I was very interested in your reference to using a PDA for navigation. I have one but only use it for diary/tel nos. etc. I was given it by my employer. I would be very interested in any advice you would impart re which charts you have in the PDA and where to purchase them and what they cost. I am very much a novice in IT so any advice you could give me would be greatly apprecaited. The 'simpler' the better.

The PDA I use is a Dell Axim 51v with a separate bluetooth GPS. It sits in a car sat nav type cradle at the wheel with a 12V supply. It's not waterproof so has to be moved under the sprayhood if it looks like it might get wet. When you want to have a closer look you can just slide it out of the cradle and hold it in your hand - it will work for a couple of hours on its internal battery if necessary.

The software on the PDA is Memory Map (see here ) and the charts are Maptech Admiralty raster. IIRC, Memory Map was about £50 and Maptech charts now come in large folios for around £90. There is one folio for the whole of the UK and Ireland and another for Europe from the Baltic to Gibraltar. Each folio contains several hundred charts.

The screen is a bit small but with sensible use of the zoom facility it works well for me. I only use it for the detailed pilotage bits. Route planning and tracking is on the laptop down below.

 

[Playtime]

You would think that 20 years in the computer industry would make me favour the PC route. In fact, it is the opposite. I would hate to have to trust my life to anything that needed Microsoft Windows to work. If there was a truly viable Mac alternative I would consider it, but I have recently reviewed all the Mac navigation stuff and it is too limited and difficult to integrate.

So, my view is to get a proper chart plotter. They are good value for what they deliver, and being designed for a single purpose they are robust.

By all means have a PC for planning etc. but on a cold dark night the last thing you want is "the blue screen of death".

I have used a laptop as my main navigation aid for more than 10 years and have never yet had a blue screen of death on passage.

That said, I always upload the planned route from the laptop to the GPS (Garmin 128) before setting off and use the waypoints in the GPS for 'real' navigation, interfacing to the autohelm etc. The laptop is essentially a good planning tool before departure and a monitoring tool during the passage.

If money was no object would I like a chartplotter at the helm? I guess the answer is yes, but I am happy with my current set-up, especially Admiralty charts. Although vector charts have improved hugely over the last 10 years I still prefer the 'originals'.

 

[Quandary]

I have considered a plotter but have one main problem with it. Mounting it securely where it can be seen. There is a big hoop large enough for a 12" display in front of the wheel but you only stand or sit there sometimes when the sails are down and motoring. Then the autopilot goes on and it is easy to get to the laptop dowstairs. I don't really fancy placing an important bit of kit on a swivel. Is there a decent size plotter with a display that can be seen from the coaming or do they have to be duplicated? For the same reason all the instrument displays are over the hatch where they can be seen anywhere in the cockpit. Sailing two up, it is comfortable for the helm to sit on the coaming with a leg each side of the wheel (it is 1500mm. dia.) with the traveller line and mainsheet tail to hand, my wife steers from the coaming further aft but there the traveller is a lot more difficult to operate so she can only dump the mainsheet and wait for me to come to fully tighten it afterwards.
Surely it is time that there was a plotter or mounting system that can be used under sail without having to jump across the boat to read it, or is the only answer going to be big boat style twin wheels with two angled displays with all the extra complexity and friction in the steering system.