Please help a newbie

[xymox]

Hi All,

I was wondering if you could help me. Me and the wife recently spent a wonderful holiday aboard a Fairline Phantom 43 with a coulple we met on holiday. As a result we have fallen in love with the idea of retiring early and spending our days travelling around the Med on a boat. However, being total newbies I have a shed load of questions which I hope some of you can help.

1) Budget of about £200k for the boat and was looking for recommendation for boats which would be capable of allowing us to travel around the Med. Looking at second hand. It would be just the 2 of us but would occasionaly look to invite 2-3 friends on board occasionally.

2) When travelling to other ports/marinas and harbours how do we "reserve" a spot in advance, and what sort of costs are we looking at ?

3) How does passport control work when say for example we travel from Italy to Croatia ?

4) What other costs such as fuel/maintenance etc should we also budget for ?

5) Do you need some sort of sailing license in order to use harbours/marinas etc and to travel over the MED/sea etc

6) If a license is required any pointers to the qualifications that would be required etc and where would be best to go for these courses. We live near London.

7) How secure can the boats be made when we go on-shore and I assume we would need insurance. Any advice on the type and potential cost of insurance would be?

8) How is navigation normally handled, can you get some sort of navigation software which would help in plotting your course ? How can you avoid dangerous areas water wise, and avoid shipping lanes etc etc

9) Are there any laws etc about just dropping anchor in a small bay off the costs etc of another country

10) Any publications/books that would be recommended reading would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance to all/any of the questions and if you could post links to useful resources it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Andy











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[NorthernWave]

Hi Andy
I will answer some of the questions for you but I suspect in relation to costs there are propbably other people more qualified than myself.

I would suggest getting into some sort of school for both yourself and your other half (important you both do it for safety), you could do it in the med with various companies advertised in MBM.

Navigation software is available both for your laptop and your onboard plotter (depends on what is fitted). I would say that paper charts are still very useful for planning, HOWEVER IMHO if you have enough back ups electronics will get you most places safely. I would go for a GPS enabled laptop, indash Plotter and a handheld (useful for tender excursions).

200,000 should get you a nice boat. Planning hulls although fast are not always the best idea. A good solid displacement or semi would probably give you better economy and therefore better range.

Customs and Immigration is pretty straight forward in most ports, with the captain going ashore with the ships documents and all passports to check in. Alot of the med this is no longer required with british Passports once checked in to Europe.

Also consider the caribbean. Dock express leaves various locations in the med and often you can get on (standby) very cheaply.

Chris

<hr width=100% size=1>Still in Trinidad

 

[Renegade_Master]

Hi Andy so many questions so little time/forums/images/icons/smile.gif welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place. I will put together a full reply very soon. Clive Sun Coast Sea School

In the meantime 5) & 6) yes you and your wife would be advised to do a 4 day Day Skipper Practical course which also gives you the important ICC (International Certificate of Competence) which the authorities look for.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[xymox]

Thanks for the info Chris, hope you are enjoying Trinidad still The Caribbean is certainly an option although how would we transport the boat over there ? or would these types of boat handle the voyage ?

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[tcm]

hi

1) Budget of about £200k for the boat and was looking for recommendation for boats which would be capable of allowing us to travel around the Med. Looking at second hand. It would be just the 2 of us but would occasionaly look to invite 2-3 friends on board occasionally.
For the med, you need canopies and (especially) airconditioning. Princess, fairline, sealine and sunseeker are main "brit"names. There are a few more in the med - azimut (italian) becoming big. I wd strongly recommend buying the boat locally, and keeping the boat in the same marina as the dealer from whom you buy it for the first season.

2) When travelling to other ports/marinas and harbours how do we "reserve" a spot in advance, and what sort of costs are we looking at ?
Prices vary with the seasons, and with location. At the extreme, some ports in majorca and southern france would charge praps up to 80 quid a night in height of high season. You shoud look to have a "home" base, as above - somehwere the boat ends up each year. You can call by phone in hotspots, or you can stay at anchor in settled summer weather.

3) How does passport control work when say for example we travel from Italy to Croatia ?
Um, niot surer of those borders, but it sort of doesn't very much: we have passports but went from spain to italy to france and nobody asked for passports, ever.


4) What other costs such as fuel/maintenance etc should we also budget for ?
Glub, this is possibly the expenisive bit. On a 200k 40-somthing footer, expect 6-8 berthing if moving around, fuel mebbe same agin depending on how far you go, budget 1 mile a gallon abnd it'll be better than that. But then there charts and other stuff.

5) Do you need some sort of sailing license in order to use harbours/marinas etc and to travel over the MED/sea etc
Not techically, tho it is wise to have some sort of qualification, and an ICCprovides this. Look at the RYA.org website for motor crusing courses. Also, ensure you get someone to help/train you on your actual boat.

6) If a license is required any pointers to the qualifications that would be required etc and where would be best to go for these courses. We live near London.
again, see RYA.org. There are also training people on the bulletin board : they'l perhaps contact you byt private message - click on the flashing thingy at the top.

7) How secure can the boats be made when we go on-shore and I assume we would need insurance. Any advice on the type and potential cost of insurance would be?
200k biat insurance might be 2-3 grand a year. They are *fairly* secure.

8) How is navigation normally handled, can you get some sort of navigation software which would help in plotting your course ? How can you avoid dangerous areas water wise, and avoid shipping lanes etc etc
Yep, there are GPS systems, quite simple, and charts (maps) and compasses, and with a combination of all these, you'll have the gear to avoid most things. A training course is partly theory, so wd cover this stuff.

9) Are there any laws etc about just dropping anchor in a small bay off the costs etc of another country
Not many laws, no, and lotos of people just drop anchor in sheltered spots. But you'd want to be sure that the weather was going to stay settled.

10) Any publications/books that would be recommended reading would be appreciated.
erm, again, try some training. Tell you wot, "suncoast" has a 36footer in southern spain, so you pay for a weeks training, stay on board in nice weather, and they'll have loads of books and stuff to er ruin your evenings ...




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[xymox]

Thanks Sun Coast for the Info. Looking forward to your reply I'll look into the 4 day course which sounds just perfect.

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[xymox]

Thanks as well TCM great advice. This is looking more doable by the minute .. thanks again for your time in replying..

I'm sure I'll have more questions

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just to add a few thoughts from my own experience in the Med. Apart from buying the boat, you will have to budget for the following annual costs

Berthing £6000 - £10,000 (or a lot more if you visit other marinas whilst cruising)
Insurance £1500
Maintenance £3000 - £5000 (or a lot more if something major goes wrong)
Fuel £5000 (will depend entirely on how much you use the boat)
Guardiennage £3000 (this is a service for looking after your boat whilst you are in UK)
Airfares/transfers £5000 (say 8 visits to your boat per year)

The fuel and maintenance costs could be considerably higher if you do a lot of cruising
Strongly recommend that you do a training course and get at least a day skipper qualification which I believe will get you an International Certificate of Competence which you will certainly need in France. Suncoast runs an excellent sea school in Spain and will be able to help you
As a general rule the Western Med is very very crowded in July and August and, if you can, this period is to be avoided. Visiting berthing rates go up hugely (I paid £120/night in Ibiza in August) and all anchorages are jammed. You can try to reserve berths ahead but it is difficult. In France, some marinas may accept a fax booking. In the Balearics, the system seems to be that you phone the marina office the minute it opens in the morning and they put you on the waiting list. You ring again at 17.00 to find out if you can get in which you usually cant!
For reading up on cruising areas, I suggest you buy Imray cruising guides/pilot books for the areas in which you are interested <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.imray.com/>http://www.imray.com/</A>
You mentioned Croatia. This is reputedly a fantastic cruising area and, as yet, not nearly as crowded as the Western Med. I'm considering going there myself in a year or two

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[Wiggo]

Andy,

two observations:

firstly, the figure I've heard thrown around is 10-15% of the purchase cost per year as running costs. So if you add up tcm's figures, you'll see it comes to about that - 8k berthing, 8k fuel, 3k insurance, 2k service/antifoul gets you 21k before anything big or unexpected happening.

How much time are you planning to spend on the boat? 200k would get you a Targa 43 or a Phantom 42 between 4 and 7 years old. The Phantom would be the better boat for spending a long time on (just got more living space, frankly), but neither are what you would call live-aboards. OK for a couple fo weeks at a push, but I doubt they'd be practical for any longer.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.wignall/boats/eulimene600x800.jpg>The old and the new</A>

 

[xymox]

Thanks Deleted User, excellent info and thanks for taking the time to respond and for the link.

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[xymox]

Wiggo, thanks also for the info, very useful.

With our situation we would be looking initial for a "live in". Which boats would you recommend to be more practical for lengthy stays?

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[Wiggo]

Not my domain, I'm afraid. Pauline B might be able to help on recommendations for liveaboards. I think the plan would probably be 'bigger, older, slower'. The boat, that is, not Pauline. Er, obviously.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.wignall/boats/eulimene600x800.jpg>The old and the new

 

[hlb]

AaaaRRggg!! You cant let him loose with that!!

<hr width=100% size=1> Flags Solly MFBR</font color=red>
Haydn

 

[xymox]

LOL

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[PhilF]

call me a sceptic but.........

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[Renegade_Master]

Hi again Andy

1) About 40ft min boat for long passages living aboard. I would go for a flybridge personnally more living space. Lot to be said for the slower semi displacement boats perhaps with large aft sleeping cabin. slower speed = smaller engines
= smaller fuel bills generally.

2) can radio or phone ahead, or indeed justr turn up they will usually fit you in

3) No restirctions to my knowledge on passports throughout europe, just need to show them together with all ships papers upon arrival. Theres no physical border to cross at sea.

4) Concur with mike and all on the sums here.

5) & 6) I answered earlier, dont be tempted to think its just you not your wife who needs training. Had this recently with a guy just bought a Manhattan 56 to go round the med with his wife, reckoned alone would need the course. I pointed out what if you fall over in a rough sea get knocked out who brings the boat in? Or indeed what if you are the MOB? who rescues you? Apart from these two points trained crew have things to do and thus are less vunerable to sea sickness.

7) In your permanent birth they will or should have secure pontoons and/or security guard patrols.

8) The Day Skipper course/ICC teach you how to chart navigate (electrics can go wrong) even includes a night passage. Good chart plotter or laptop with software such as Transas Navigator is necessary. Plus VHF for which you will need a licence.
Both the paper charts and software will show the hazards.

9) dont know of any.

10) Almanac & Pilot books plus up to date charts essential

If you PM me your email address I will send you our list whcih we issue to clients wanting own boat tuition. The list includes essential safety gar, nav equip and publications.
Finally as someone mentioned elsewhere, whilst you may get your Day Skipper/ICC ahead of your boat, do get a couple of days initial training onboard once aquired. We can provide the same instructor for both. Best of luck Clive

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[xymox]

Thanks Clive. Sent you a PM

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[Nick_H]

Most questions have been covered already. On the question of which boat, I would suggest you seriously consider an aft cabin boat if you plan to live aboard. Benefits are that you get a more spacious sleeping cabin, its quieter at anchor (because waves slap against the bow), and because the designers don't need to squeeze two cabins up front, you get a dining area and a bigger galley. The trade off is you get less external socialising space. If you prefer the more modern styling of the Phantom, it might be worth looking at a Pearl 43 or Sealine F43, which should be within your budget second hand. I have a Sealine T46, which is effectively a bigger version of the F43, and only slightly above your budget. I would comfortably live on my boat if I didn't have a bloody job to do.

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[xymox]

Thanks for the post houghn, both boats look very nice. Your T46 looks very very nice.

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