Please folks, talk me out of this madness - 26m Canados!

I'm probably missing a point, what's wrong with a wooden boat?


















:p






P, go for it!

Bart, remove all the f/b teak, correct any rotten pieces, lay a couple of layers of thinish mat with epoxy and then relay the teak on top. This way you have the best of both worlds ;)

V.
 
P, Ive spent a fair bit of time with the pad on my lap contemplating how to express my opinion constructively, but in short: don't do it. Listen to what Bart says.

Based on some of your earlier comments I sensed that you were looking for a boat that would be less demanding maintenance wise. You know better than most what maintaining a (large) wooden boat entails.
 
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vas said:
I'm probably missing a point, what's wrong with a wooden boat?

P, go for it!

Bart, remove all the f/b teak, correct any rotten pieces, lay a couple of layers of thinish mat with epoxy and then relay the teak on top. This way you have the best of both worlds ;)

V.
Click to expand...

nothing wrong with a wooden boat as such, , but I"m afraid that P is missing some of the Undurance that you have Vas ;-)
with due respect to P's experience and know how ofcause :)


re my deck, yes that is the plan, will come back to you as soon we start that work in 1,5 years probably / hopefully
@Vas re Victron 12V chrager, sorry for delay have almost not been in the office the last 3 weeks
 
Hi everybody, glad that you found the thread interesting.
I also did, because it was an opportunity to understand who the real friends are...
Many thanks to DougH (and to the others afterwards who followed along the same lines) for the sanity check.
To all others who told me to go ahead, I duly noted to NOT trust you in the future! :D :p

That said, it's all a bit academic, because when I told SWMBO that I asked the forum, she guessed that I wasn't completely joking after all, so she told me in not unclear terms that together with this boat she would pretend to have at least a couple of crew members permanently onboard - and since neither of us actually want (nor can afford!) that, there goes the Canados 85 madness. :ambivalence:

Otoh, considering that I'm not the only one who appreciates a masterpiece like this, the least I can do is follow up with some other pics, and answer your questions/comments (following the posts order):

@jfm: well spotted indeed, for some reason the pics I previously posted were both flipped. I will amend the OP in a minute, linking the correct versions.
Btw, the overall layout is very different from BA, not only because of the galley and dining side, but also because the p/house takes the full boat width, with the helm centered, and the stair going down to the cabins is behind it.
With regard to retrofitting stabs, I would think it isn't more complicated than with GRP hulls - if anything, the opposite. In fact, looking at my current boat, whose stabs were fitted at the yard during build, they didn't make anything different with regard to planks and frames, in the fins area. Basically, they just "filled" the space between two frames with the same type of wood used for the frames themselves, creating a wide enough area whose thickness is huge (4cm planks+12cm frames), and obviously strong enough.
Well, it has been so far anyway (touch wood - no pun intended!), 20 years after she was built, so I guess I can't complain... :)

@Vas: I believe she's triple planked, but don't take my word for it, I'm actually not positive about that.
Regardless, whenever you would feel like doing anything on a wooden boat, you'd be my guest also on the old tub, anytime!
And you'd be welcome also just for cruising anyway, as you already know. :encouragement:

@Deleted User: Yep, as jfm said she's under 24LLL.
But the full story is more tricky, just for the records: back in those days, the IT registration was based on tonnage, 50T being the limit above which pleasure boats were classified as "pleasure ships" (though I suppose the translation might sound a bit weird in EN).
And AFAIK, the 70 was the bigger boat that Canados managed (with some tricks, since she was above 50T anyway) to NOT register as a ship, but any 80+ boat was well above that limit. Therefore, this 85 footer was originally registered as a "pleasure ship", requiring the appropriate license to be in command of her.
When the regulation was changed to 24m, the rule used in IT actually wasn't based on LLL, but on a sort of LOA. I'm saying "sort of" because any non-structural parts (typically, the swim platform, but also gunwales and extended pulpit) are not included. As a result, with this vessel, which is above 26m "real" LOA, they managed to de-class her to 23.99m (don't ask...!), and she's not a "ship" anymore.
LLL is yet another concept, even more tricky afaik, but there are surely other folks who can explain it better than myself. Though the result is similar, 'cause for instance I remember that there are some 28m or so boats which are classed as 24m LLL.

@BartW: B, I hate to say "told you so", but IIRC back in the days when you were looking at BA I did warn you that the problems with wooden boats have more to see with fresh rather than salt water - i.e. with the superstructure, rather than the hull.
Anyway, I'm very sorry to hear that after fixing the engines you will have to open another chapter with the decks.
Do you already have an idea of where to bring BA for this job? Back in Fiumicino maybe?
If you don't want to move from the Adriatic, the carpenter I used when I was in Aprilia Marittima was outstanding. I can give you his whereabouts if you wish - and of course, if there's anything else I can help you with, just ask.
Re. DD engines, I'm also not a fan of them (aside from LOVING their sound), but I suppose they didn't have much choice back then, for a boat needing 1400hp each side - and to reach just 24kts WOT, btw...! :eek:

Last but not least, for those who asked for more pics, feast your eyes on the following masterpiece.
The saying "They don't make them like this anymore" couldn't be more appropriate. :cool:

Oh, and this is the broker ad:
http://www.vdsyachts.com/en/schede/canados-85-2/
Feel free to make an offer if you're interested, 'cause I'm too old and lazy to face a divorce...! :rolleyes:

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ha ha, I believe I know that boat, but I forgot her name,
the rear steps to the platform are not Original, and done by some of the team that did the steps on my boat,
at home I have a article about that refit
(you might have seen this article when you visited us in Rome during my refit)

from these few pics, the boat looks very good condition indeed, with a nice wheel house, and helm layout, ...
but I believe that she has been grounded a few years ago ! can find out details if interested.

re my deck / Bulwark upgrade, nothing decided yet, but I'm considering a yard in Monopoly (know them from forum mate Hardmy)
they are in the south of Italy, so pricing is better than the north
good acces, right between Bari and Brindisi (both have airports)
not too far from Amalfi, Alfonso might want to help, during his long free winter time ...
and last but not least they are doing a huge rebuild on a Canados older than mine, at this moment right now.
I have seen pictures from that
actually they build fishing boats,, so they might have experience,
will probably visit them before taking a decision.
yes let me know if you know other / better alternatives
 
She is very beautiful, but she is a wooden boat, so I will allow someone else to maintain her so I can admire her and not lose the small amount of hair that remains.

Boats that have dissolving drive systems, propellers, and coolers are more than enough for me, without the hull slowly dissolving as well.
 
In a feeble attempt to get back in MapisM's good books I think anyone contemplating such a boat purchase has to ask themselves whether they will gain pleasure from the maintenance aspect and whether they can afford and are happy to shell out the considerable cost of keeping the thing going. If you're a masochist and the answer to those question is Yes then go for it. In this case, fortunately MapisM had the decision made for him.
 
jfm said:
Wow looks great mapism. Go for it! We will help with maintenance (from our armchairs/keyboards, naturally!). The saloon picture looks the right way round in terms of dining and galley starboard like BA, but the writing on the (terrible!) scatter cushions is flipped. Is the picture flipped?
Can you retrofit stabs to a wooden hull? Everything is possible of course, but I mean is it a sensible project? What is the form of the wood construction on these hulls, and what sections/ thicknesses/frame spacing etc?
Great project!
Click to expand...

I was looking at Mapism's original pix yesterday and was lost for words. Today I looked again - this time on an iDevice rather than the pc I was using before and noticed that the pix were reversed.

I think something of that vintage with that construction more or less comes with a solemn duty of preservation and will turn into a lifetime's work to keep it beautiful.
 
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Sorry - only just picked this thread up.

I think, to balance the comments from the forum, I'm going to offer the other side of the argument.
The amount of work on a boat like this will be significantly more than the old boat.
IIRC, you pay a local guy based in San Antioco (I can't remember his name) to do all your maintenance to the old boat.
Isn't she kept ashore during the winter months as well?
You would definitely need to talk the idea through him.

Your old boat is very non-technical and as a result very robust.
Nothing that needs specialist contractors or equipment.
Would this be the case if you switched?

Currently, you and your SWMBO handle the old boat on your own - would a bigger one like the one you are suggesting be too big.
You are probably talking 60 or 70 tonnes - just a little knock on the quay could have far more consequences.
When I was out with you last summer, you drove the old boat into really tight places - you might not be able to do this kind of boating with a bigger, heavier boat.

I'm trying to think of all the negatives but I'm sure you have already thought of them.
IMO, the extra running costs would be the biggest consideration.

Of course, I haven't listed the huge benefits of such a fabulous upgrade.

But, knowing you, I'm sure whatever decision you make would be the correct one.

EDIT
Just re-read you post above - I missed your SWMBO's comments.
But it sounded to me that she might like to have 2 crewMEN on board?
 
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BartW said:
ha ha, I believe I know that boat, but I forgot her name,
the rear steps to the platform are not Original, and done by some of the team that did the steps on my boat,
at home I have a article about that refit
(you might have seen this article when you visited us in Rome during my refit)

from these few pics, the boat looks very good condition indeed, with a nice wheel house, and helm layout, ...
but I believe that she has been grounded a few years ago ! can find out details if interested.

re my deck / Bulwark upgrade, nothing decided yet, but I'm considering a yard in Monopoly (know them from forum mate Hardmy)
they are in the south of Italy, so pricing is better than the north
good acces, right between Bari and Brindisi (both have airports)
not too far from Amalfi, Alfonso might want to help, during his long free winter time ...
and last but not least they are doing a huge rebuild on a Canados older than mine, at this moment right now.
I have seen pictures from that
actually they build fishing boats,, so they might have experience,
will probably visit them before taking a decision.
yes let me know if you know other / better alternatives
Click to expand...

Bart, i have some good friends who live in Bari, and they have friends who have been boating there for decades. I'll ask them for their opinion of the best refit shipyards along that stretch of coast.

I'm sure epoxy is the best option, but is it crazy to consider a wet room flooring system? Mine was layed on wooden flooring, and can be tiled over, so could be suitable for sealing under teak decking?
 
BartW said:
the rear steps to the platform are not Original, and done by some of the team that did the steps on my boat,
at home I have a article about that refit
Click to expand...
Yes I thought so. They look too modern for the age of the boat but very nicely done all the same
 
petem said:
Good spot Portofino. SL might be a league below the Canados .
Click to expand...
You'd better not say that in earshot of anyone from SL;) They consider themselves right up with their best and having seen one of their factories and had the opportunity to see the care with which their boats are put together I wouldn't argue with that. I have to admit that if I were to get another planing boat, a nice used SL72 would definitely be on my shortlist
 
BartW said:
yes let me know if you know other / better alternatives
Click to expand...
Really hard to tell, B.
In a sense, a wooden deck job is even more critical than an engine rebuild, because there are many ways to skin that cat, and it's extremely important both to choose the best approach AND put it in practice with the right skills, materials, environmental conditions, etc.
The carpenter I mentioned before definitely has a lot of experience in that sort of jobs, but aside from being rather pricey, as I said he's based at the very northern edge of the Adriatic, which for you is not much nearer than S Sardinia for instance - where I think you could also get a good job done for sensible money.
No idea about the yard in Monopoli that you mentioned, but I know someone in the Adriatic who surely knows who's who in this field, and I could ask him, if you email me their name.

All that aside, interesting to hear that the above 85 was grounded...
...Goes without saying that this wasn't mentioned anywhere! :D
Not that I care a lot after swmbo's ultimatum, but if you have that article on a file I would be curious to have a look, 'cause I'm afraid I can't remember anything about it.
 
Flynnbarr said:
You're current boat is far better looking imho.:)
Click to expand...
Wow, thank you Sir.
I guess I'd better include yourself in the list of folks whose opinion can't be trusted, but I'm so flattered that I'll pretend yours is a connoisseur's view! :encouragement: :)
 
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