Playing with mechanical deck watches

Kukri

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I will start with a disclaimer - I think GPS actually is a good deal better than sliced bread. But being one of those people who carries around a Walker log and a sextant “just in case”, I thought I would see what happened to a good mechanical watch over a week.

Before Transit satnav, in the later 1980s, all yachts used a deck watch and the time signal to carry GMT. (Full size chronometers don’t work reliably on yachts or other small craft because the motion is too violent).

Before the time signal, yachts just used a deck watch. But the advice given to all vessels regardless of size was to carry one chronometer. or three, but never two, because if you have two, and they start to disagree, you won’t know which one is lying. Indeed the Victorian Admiralty used to issue one chronometer to each ship unless her Captain owned his own, in which case they issued two, so that he could have three!

Captain Fitzroy of HMS “Beagle” carried twenty-one chronometers, in their own cabin, with a full time watchmaker to take care of them, and when the “Beagle” got back to Falmouth after six years he was only a few seconds out, though he will certainly have recovered GMT by observation several times during the voyage.

I happen to have three navigational deck watches.

The one on the left is a Ulysse Nardin, bought by the Admiralty in 1940 (no, I don’t know how - there is space for a small book on how Swiss watch makers got their products to market during WW2 - but Ulysse Nardin were equal opportunity chronometer makers - they supplied the RN and the Kriegsmarine in equal numbers!)

The one in the middle is a Hamilton model 992B aircraft navigation watch supplied to the USAF in 1942. And the one on the right is an EMT (Edmond Massey-Tissot - also Swiss) supplied to the RN in the later 40s.

I added a Waltham “railroad watch” made in 1952 (US “railroad watches”, by Act of Congress, had to meet chronometer standards of accuracy, and were used for navigation by people like Hiscock and Tilman) and a couple of Ulysse Nardin wristwatches from the Fifties and Sixties.

After a week of being wound at the same time each day and otherwise left alone, this is what I got:

F7A1042E-8EC4-4574-8E21-29DFF3CC110C.jpeg

The Ulysse Nardin deck watch is away with the fairies and clearly needs a new balance spring - 6 minutes 50 seconds fast. The Hamilton is 43 seconds slow. The EMT is 90 seconds slow. The Waltham railroad watch is one minute 12 seconds slow, the Sixties automatic Ulysse Nardin wristwatch is one minute 45 seconds slow and the Fifties hand winding one (which has led a hard life, and is usually on my wrist) is five seconds fast.

Now, if we were navigating in the southern North Sea, at 53 degrees N, taking the three deck watches, discarding the one that is obviously wrong, and averaging the other two, the error in pure longitude would be sixty seconds in time, or fifteen minutes of longitude. At 53N. one minute of longitude is 0.6 of a nautical mile, so we would be (15 x 0.6) = 9 miles out, after a week, and it’s quite hard to be at sea for a week in the southern North Sea, (though I have come close...) so the result is acceptable before we add in sextant errors and more importantly observer errors in handling the sextant!

If on the other hand we were approaching Barbados, in 13 degrees N, after three weeks at sea, which is entirely possible, we would be 42 miles ahead of where we thought we were, which is a bit worrying!

With a radio time signal, of course, that error would have been picked up, and we would be at worst a mile and a bit “out”, which is quite acceptable.

On the whole, let’s stick with GPS - and hope for no lightning strikes!
 
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MarkCX

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Wouldn’t be too sure about the £20 Casio, I got a new one last Wednesday and it has lost 2 seconds in 6 days. Not too bad, but not as good as one might expect.
My previous Casio, a different model, also had a similar level of accuracy.
 

dunedin

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Wouldn’t be too sure about the £20 Casio, I got a new one last Wednesday and it has lost 2 seconds in 6 days. Not too bad, but not as good as one might expect.
My previous Casio, a different model, also had a similar level of accuracy.

So exactly as I said, the Casio was be more accurate than all of them (massively so except for one), other than the iPhone :)
 

RAI

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My attempt is pitiful by comparison. I have two Ingersoll and one gold Smith's pocket watches on board. Just for the emergency of GPS being totally switched off or destroyed, as predicted by supporters of LORAN C.
So the key discipline is winding the beasts everyday, then logging their times at the midday of the likely one. Then working out the drift on each one when a reliable midday is known. This is tricky, as in the no electricity scenario, such a source is rare. I expect there is a trick with a sextant, or by observing sun rise and sunset for a local midday calculation.
Anyway, after cheating and checking GPS time. I decided it was all a waste of time, such was the drift on my "deck watches".
 

Kukri

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The iPhone isn’t showing its internal clock - which isn’t great - it’s showing an Internet corrected time signal. The Hamilton is doing very well indeed, considering it is 78 years old, and has been cleaned but not regulated.
Its rate is good, and if I were to tweak its micrometer regulator very slightly it would get to within the thirty seconds a week that it was designed to achieve. It’s based on a railroad watch, and they all had to make thirty seconds a week.

My attempt is pitiful by comparison. I have two Ingersoll and one gold Smith's pocket watches on board. Just for the emergency of GPS being totally switched off or destroyed, as predicted by supporters of LORAN C.
So the key discipline is winding the beasts everyday, then logging their times at the midday of the likely one. Then working out the drift on each one when a reliable midday is known. This is tricky, as in the no electricity scenario, such a source is rare. I expect there is a trick with a sextant, or by observing sun rise and sunset for a local midday calculation.
Anyway, after cheating and checking GPS time. I decided it was all a waste of time, such was the drift on my "deck watches".

So, I’m not alone! Phew! Your watches would be fine if you could get a time signal.

Yes; if you know your position (eg, you are ashore, at a known place) and you can get a horizon (not so easy!) and you know your height of eye, you can recover GMT very accurately with a sextant. Detailed instructions in “Lecky’s Wrinkles in Practical Navigation”. Diligent Victorian navigators carried an “artificial horizon” consisting of a cast iron trough and a bottle of mercury in order to do this.
 

RAI

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The iPhone isn’t showing its internal clock - which isn’t great - it’s showing an Internet corrected time signal. The Hamilton is doing very well indeed, considering it is 78 years old, and has been cleaned but not regulated.
Its rate is good, and if I were to tweak its micrometer regulator very slightly it would get to within the thirty seconds a week that it was designed to achieve. It’s based on a railroad watch, and they all had to make thirty seconds a week.



So, I’m not alone! Phew! Your watches would be fine if you could get a time signal.

Yes; if you know your position (eg, you are ashore, at a known place) and you can get a horizon (not so easy!) and you know your height of eye, you can recover GMT very accurately with a sextant. Detailed instructions in “Lecky’s Wrinkles in Practical Navigation”. Diligent Victorian navigators carried an “artificial horizon” consisting of a cast iron trough and a bottle of mercury in order to do this.
Yes, well, one of the few times I got my sextant out of it's box was to try to measure my range from a lighthouse. I determined that am crap at taking a sighting in a seaway. Mercury in a cast iron bowl would not have stayed there.
 

Stemar

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Very interesting. Also important is the consistency of the timepiece. It doesn't matter too much if it's a minute a day out as long as it's a minute out in the same direction every day. You can check it before setting off and make allowance. That watch is far better than the one that randomly loses or gains ~10 seconds.

I'd be interesting to see how a selection of quartz watches compared, from cheap and cheerful kids' Casios to top of the range Seiko, Citizen and the like. I suspect all of them would be accurate to within whatever the requirements for that particular model would be, which is, I presume a matter of tweaking a tiny rheostat until it's good enough. I also suspect they'd be consistent to a far greater accuracy.

I happened to put my £10 Casio right this morning; it was about 30 seconds slow after a couple of months, which is, give or take a few seconds (didn't make a note) the same as the last time I did it which, I think, makes it the winner so far :D On that basis, I reckon my choice of timepiece for a GPS-free transat would be a set of three similar watches, bought a few months in advance to check their accuracy.
 

newtothis

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All this modern precision... head towards sunset until you see land birds. Slow up a bit until you see land. Welcome to the Americas.
 

capnsensible

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I've always used my cheapo Casio but it does feel a teensy bit like cheating. I wear them until the strap breaks which is Mebbe a year or more. Then they get chucked on the shelf next to the sextants. Prior to a trip or a course, expired ones get binned. The others set correctly. Then I get a choice of slowly drifting times to pick from. ?

Would be very nice to use a proper instrument.
 

capnsensible

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All this modern precision... head towards sunset until you see land birds. Slow up a bit until you see land. Welcome to the Americas.
What if your coming back and want to goto Horta? ?

Actually, on my first east west, using the elderly rdf tuned to a long wave radio station in Barbados belting out Christmas records was an undeniable thrill. ?
 

Kukri

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I confess to still owning a B&G Homer Heron. My excuse for years was that it got the cricket, but it does get the time signal and I dare say it can still home on a transmitter. It’s just so nicely made! Sadly it takes a type of jackplug that hasn’t been seen in decades. On the plus side, it sits inside an excellent Faraday cage!

The inside of the Hamilton:

3BF27C4D-B07C-4168-9E01-39A34B3D01E1.jpeg



It has a “hack” function - quite unusual - pulling the stem out to set the hands stops the watch, including the sweep seconds hand, so you can set it precisely to the time signal. When US 8th Air Force navigators were told, as in all the best war films, to “synchronise your watches” at pre-mission briefings, they actually did just that.
 
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Skylark

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I like all things mechanical and I’m very impressed with your collection.

I wear a Sea Dweller but wouldn’t dream of using it for navigation. I was invited by friends to cross Canaries to Caribbean in December/January and was determined to log the entire trip the old fashioned way. I admit to using 2, £10 Casio’s. The month prior, I calibrated them once a week against a time signal. Interestingly, I reckon that they varied by an additional second per month due to the higher ambient temperatures.

If I’d have relied upon my Rolex I would probably be in the South China Sea by now ?
 

obmij

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I will start with a disclaimer - I think GPS actually is a good deal better than sliced bread. But being one of those people who carries around a Walker log and a sextant “just in case”, I thought I would see what happened to a good mechanical watch over a week.

Before Transit satnav, in the later 1980s, all yachts used a deck watch and the time signal to carry GMT. (Full size chronometers don’t work reliably on yachts or other small craft because the motion is too violent).

Before the time signal, yachts just used a deck watch. But the advice given to all vessels regardless of size was to carry one chronometer. or three, but never two, because if you have two, and they start to disagree, you won’t know which one is lying. Indeed the Victorian Admiralty used to issue one chronometer to each ship unless her Captain owned his own, in which case they issued two, so that he could have three!

Captain Fitzroy of HMS “Beagle” carried twenty-one chronometers, in their own cabin, with a full time watchmaker to take care of them, and when the “Beagle” got back to Falmouth after six years he was only a few seconds out, though he will certainly have recovered GMT by observation several times during the voyage.

I happen to have three navigational deck watches.

The one on the left is a Ulysse Nardin, bought by the Admiralty in 1940 (no, I don’t know how - there is space for a small book on how Swiss watch makers got their products to market during WW2 - but Ulysse Nardin were equal opportunity chronometer makers - they supplied the RN and the Kriegsmarine in equal numbers!)

The one in the middle is a Hamilton model 992B aircraft navigation watch supplied to the USAF in 1942. And the one on the right is an EMT (Edmond Massey-Tissot - also Swiss) supplied to the RN in the later 40s.

I added a Waltham “railroad watch” made in 1952 (US “railroad watches”, by Act of Congress, had to meet chronometer standards of accuracy, and were used for navigation by people like Hiscock and Tilman) and a couple of Ulysse Nardin wristwatches from the Fifties and Sixties.

After a week of being wound at the same time each day and otherwise left alone, this is what I got:

View attachment 97915

The Ulysse Nardin deck watch is away with the fairies and clearly needs a new balance spring - 6 minutes 50 seconds fast. The Hamilton is 43 seconds slow. The EMT is 90 seconds slow. The Waltham railroad watch is one minute 12 seconds slow, the Sixties automatic Ulysse Nardin wristwatch is one minute 45 seconds slow and the Fifties hand winding one (which has led a hard life, and is usually on my wrist) is five seconds fast.

Now, if we were navigating in the southern North Sea, at 53 degrees N, taking the three deck watches, discarding the one that is obviously wrong, and averaging the other two, the error in pure longitude would be sixty seconds in time, or fifteen minutes of longitude. At 53N. one minute of longitude is 0.6 of a nautical mile, so we would be (15 x 0.6) = 9 miles out, after a week, and it’s quite hard to be at sea for a week in the southern North Sea, (though I have come close...) so the result is acceptable before we add in sextant errors and more importantly observer errors in handling the sextant!

If on the other hand we were approaching Barbados, in 13 degrees N, after three weeks at sea, which is entirely possible, we would be 42 miles ahead of where we thought we were, which is a bit worrying!

With a radio time signal, of course, that error would have been picked up, and we would be at worst a mile and a bit “out”, which is quite acceptable.

On the whole, let’s stick with GPS - and hope for no lightning strikes!

If the waste hit the macerator, and you were obliged to do this for real then surely you have monitored the timepiece and would know its error & rate of change, and would allow for this is your calcs the same way you allow for the various sextant errors and other endless bits of fetching and carrying when working up a sight.

As you point out when you have a known position you've got GMT. I'm guessing this would have been deliberately sought after back in the day and would have allowed further confirmation of error & rate of change.

Anyway, I reckon all in all the deck watch or chronometer was probably fairly reliable, and probably more accurate than the wobbly sights. Just don't drop it!
 

Kukri

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That is absolutely right, of course. One has a chronometer rate book and records the rate over as many days as possible, averages it and applies it, along with all the other corrections. The important thing is that the rate should be constant. In my little experiment the Hamilton and the EMT both showed a reasonably consistent rate. So we would not have gone bump on Barbados in the middle of the night after all.
 

GTom

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Wouldn’t be too sure about the £20 Casio, I got a new one last Wednesday and it has lost 2 seconds in 6 days. Not too bad, but not as good as one might expect.
My previous Casio, a different model, also had a similar level of accuracy.
Not an issue if you know how much you need to correct. That 2sec/6days remains constant regardless of motion. No idea if temperature has an effect but that's not changing extremely during a transat.
 

LittleSister

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Very interesting. Also important is the consistency of the timepiece. It doesn't matter too much if it's a minute a day out as long as it's a minute out in the same direction every day.

Which reminds me of a tale Shane Acton told about one of his trips. The positions he was getting from his sights just didn't add up, but there was clearly some regularity to the errors. He was using a cheap alarm clock as his 'chronometer', and eventually discovered that the minute hand was a little loose on its shaft, so when it was on the upward half of the clock face (6 to 12) it fell back a minute or so, then when it was on a downward path it fell forward the same amount!
 
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