Play in the hinge of CQR anchor - is it normal?

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sheyes

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A surveyor commented on the play in the hinge of my CQR but before spending out on a new anchor (I'm not looking for a discussion of the relative merits of anchor types) I thought I would check out other people's cqr's and found that all the ones in the boatyard have similar play. Does anyone have one with no play? I anchor quite a lot and have never had difficulties with this anchor but if it needs changing so be it. What does the panel think?
Steve
 
sheyes said:
A surveyor commented on the play in the hinge of my CQR but before spending out on a new anchor (I'm not looking for a discussion of the relative merits of anchor types) I thought I would check out other people's cqr's and found that all the ones in the boatyard have similar play. Does anyone have one with no play? I anchor quite a lot and have never had difficulties with this anchor but if it needs changing so be it. What does the panel think?
Steve
Click to expand...

I've never seen one with no play in the joint. A pin that is 1 or 2mm smaller in diameter than the hole would be normal to my. My current one has been like that for 24 years!

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
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A well used one will have more play than an original and the more play the angle of the fluke to the shank will change. How much leeway there is as to when increased play impacts performance - I've never seen any data.

If you use it with success I'd save you money. The surveyor was simply showing you his attention to detail. Its a bit late now and the obvious question to him was:

What play should there be

How does it affect performance

what angle should I be looking for

My guess is he would have had no answers.

In the original patent I'd guess the angle of the fluke to shank is defined. Dig out the patent, measure the angles on your anchor and compare with data provided. If you have an original CQR the patent number was part of the stamping in the shank.

Jonathan
 
sheyes said:
A surveyor commented on the play in the hinge of my CQR but before spending out on a new anchor (I'm not looking for a discussion of the relative merits of anchor types) I thought I would check out other people's cqr's and found that all the ones in the boatyard have similar play. Does anyone have one with no play? I anchor quite a lot and have never had difficulties with this anchor but if it needs changing so be it. What does the panel think?
Steve
Click to expand...

what is the weight cast / stamped into it
 
When new, there is some play in the hinge system of a CQR, but it does increase with age.

There is some controversy about how much this effects the performance of the anchor. There are some that believe it has a dramatic effect and feel this explains why the CQR, that was once regarded as a very good anchor, now has unfairly a poor reputation.

My own view is that providing the wear is not excessive, the effect on the performance in soft substrates such as mud is only slight. In hard substrates there is more effect and as even a CQR in good conditions struggles to set in firm sand, I would definitely replace a worn anchor if anticipating using it in this type of bottom. I think the current poor reputation is more because the CQR can now be compared to modern anchors and these designs have raised our performance expectations.

Interestingly, the wear varies quite significantly. Some relatively old and even rusty anchors only have a small amount of wear, others have quite a dramatic loss.

This is an example of an old, relatively rusty CQR. The pin, hole and bearing surfaces (that act as limit stops to set the pivoting angle) had some wear, but were not too bad for an old anchor.

VNSns7q.jpg



This photo shows how much wear can occur. Obviously this anchor should have been retired a long time ago. This boat did have a second CQR. The fluke of the second anchor had almost fallen to bits but the pivoting surfaces were better.

2lw647p.jpg



Hard substrates will obviously wear the pivoting mechanism more rapidly, but I wonder if how the anchor is fixed to the bow roller is an important factor. On some boats the fluke rocks back and forth when sailing.
 
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This was their second anchor. Maybe it is time for replacement :).

Note: The wear on the pivoting surfaces is less despite the very extensive overall corrosion.

p9YITeC.jpg
 
my Dad retired his original CQR after 45 years - the gap between the pin and the other part was approx 10mm. he also was having difficulty anchoring. we are not sure if the two are related (tho i suspect he does not put out enough chain!)

the new one does seem to work tho

we wondered about angles etc. tho took the easy option and bought another

i would go back to your surveyor and ask them?
 
Thousand swear by CQRs - so some find them perfectly acceptable, they have been a stalwart for 90 years (not a bad record), you see them all over the world. If you are thinking of retirement (of the anchor) simply because of the play in the hinge - it would be quite simple to sleeve it, try it, and if you are not impressed - continue with your ideas of retirement.

You have nothing to lose.

Jonathan
 
I have the genuine CQR, 60 lb model. The hinge pin has about a 5mm gap and it is bit wobbly. I have retired mine.
 
Neeves said:
it would be quite simple to sleeve it, try it, and if you are not impressed - continue with your ideas of retirement.
Click to expand...

This can be done but if there is wear on the pivot pin there will also be wear on the surfaces that limit the pivot. These surfaces effect the geometry of the anchor in the important phase when it is trying to set. They do not effect the performance of the anchor once (if) it rotates upright, but the anchor will not work properly if they are excessively worn.

A competent welder could build the surfaces back up to normal, but I would not just sleeve the pivot pin as it will only fix part of the problem. You would need to check the geometry matches an original and then regalvanise the anchor when this was all done.

Personally, I don't think it worth a trouble. A cheap fixed plough anchor like the Kobra will give better overall performance than a CQR, so at least find out how the cost compares before proceeding.

If you want to stay with a CQR the other option is to look for a second hand example where the pivoting surfaces are in better condition. These anchors are not expensive and if you can find one that has sat in locker with little movement the pivoting mechanism can be in good condition even if the anchor has become a little tired and rusty.


The red lines on this photo are draw next to the surfaces I am referring to (although they are not bad on this anchor). These surfaces gradually become worn. The wear is not as obvious as a small pin rattling in big hole, but the effect is similar:

uZL5XHu.jpg
 
I understood it to be a CQR, genuine.

Go to your nearest chandler, measure the distance from the toe to the shackle point with the shank lifted for an identical anchor, not another clone, not a genuine model. Try to make the same measurement on a number of identical models, so that you can define variation in new ones. Then go and measure you own. My thoughts are that if you anchor is not particularly old and not used every day - there will be little wear. But once you have measured - post the answers here.

If you are happy with its current performance - keep it. But as Noelex has suggested a Kobra is the cheapest good alternative (but it has a weak shank - that's one reason its cheap).

Jonathan
 
guernseyman said:
Just out of interest, has anyone thought about why there is a significant clearance in the hinge?
Click to expand...

You mean originally?

Or after use?

In use and on the bow roller the fluke or shank is free to move and any sand in the hinge will abrade. Sitting on a swing mooring the fluke can swing, slightly, day in day out. Constant abrasion will cause some wear - but how much? and how critical?

The distance between shackle point and toe is one component that determines the angle the fluke addresses the seabed. It should be about 30 degrees. Increased wear will increase the angle and the anchor would become less efficient in sand, and particularly harder sand (but better in mud). This is why Fortress are set at 32 degrees for sand and 45 degrees for mud - so 15 degrees matters. Not suggesting wear will cause a 15 degree change - but I don't think anyone could hazard a guess at changes in performance for, say, 3 degrees

Jonathan
 
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