PITA new owners

Ignore the moron is the approach the broker has taken, but then he has legal claim insurance cover. I have blocked all calls and texts from him and will not contact him despite his last text to me saying to do so before he resorts to suing. bastard is still on board until Tuesday I believe as he has somebody doing some other 'work ' for him so I will stay well away from the marina and make sure the home door is double locked as unfortunately he does know where we live.
 
If he does sue, one of the things he may bring up is your repeated helpfulness.

"There were dozens of undisclosed defects with the boat and Robin kept helping me fix them for a while. His conduct in helping fix those defects shows that there were in fact defects. When he realised I was not just going to accept being sold a defective boat he stopped helping to fix the defects."

He will also produce all the invoices he has paid to local tradesmen to show what poor condition the boat was in.

It would be prudent to put your side of the story down on paper as completely as you can. I won't advise you on whether it would be prudent to send a letter to him with all that detail, but since he has threatened to sue you you might consider sending him a short note along the lines you have written on here:
- I sold you the boat second-hand, as-is
- I gave no warranty on the boat
- you engaged a surveyor to determine the status of the boat yourself; you had an opportunity to do due diligence and you took that opportunity
- I gave you a full-day handover showing how the boat works
- you have contacted me a number of times; your questions show a profound misunderstanding of the systems on a boat and reveal that you have not read the manuals that I gave you.
 
From now on reply to nothing & say nothing. Total blank.
Trying to calm the issue will just show weakness.
Anything you say may be misconstrued & used against you.
Just leave it for him to make any move if he so decides.
If it comes to it take legal advice when necessary.
 
Daydream believer said:
From now on reply to nothing & say nothing. Total blank.
Trying to calm the issue will just show weakness.
Anything you say may be misconstrued & used against you.
Just leave it for him to make any move if he so decides.
If it comes to it take legal advice when necessary.
Click to expand...

I would say this is good advice.

I would add that with the threat of legal action in the air it is possibly now time to consider asking for this thread to be taken down, primarily for the protection of the OP.
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

Poecheng said:
I agree with this.
Click to expand...

Well we sold the boat In Sept 2016 13 monthsa ago. today we received a threatening letter from the a-hole's attorney saying pay $3970 within 10 days OR be sued for the $75,000 sale price plus another $35,000 for other work a-hole claims to have done since. He claims we were contracted to fix a faulty windlass and flat battery before completion and handover. The windlass wasn't working as the battery it ran from was DEAD. A new battery was installed and lo and behold all was OK, verified by our boat mechanic and an email stating so sent to the buyer, who neither visited nor hsad anyone else do so before he authorised the final payment to be made via the selling broker. In the next 3 months I was besieged several times daily with dumb questions via text or email which I patiently answered before eventually saying enough was enough, warranty ceased on handover. IN between was hurricane Matthew and being a kind sould I kept watch over the boat and took pics of it and sent him.those immediately the storm was past, showing no damage not even a scratch. I heard later he tried to get his surveyor to visit and document damage so he could make a claim on his insurance, but the surveyor refused flat out.(there was NO damage) 3 months on and he says the windlass was not working as it was severely corroded- our fault because it should have been replaced but was not. He says it cost$3970 to replace then, some 3 months after the sale and money handover.

This is a nightmare! what to do. Ignore his attorney and call his bluff? pay up? flee the country? (we are going to leave as soon as our home sells anyway) Or get an attorney ourselves at a cost of course to respond? I left a message for hiss attorney to call me but am unsure if that was wise, I was merely planning to explain the circumstances in the hope he would see the futility of a claim. I still retain copies of the A-holes texts on my phone and his emails' plus have copies of bills for work we had done including the new battery for the windlass/engine and an email confirming that the windlass was now fully operational.

This is causing us severe stress.

Any helpful ideas please?
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

Sorry to hear that you’ve had trouble. I think from the sounds of things, your bases are covered. I know that’s no guarantee but at least you’v able to show documented proof of good faith and serviceability on handover. Is there some sort of buyer beware clause you can call back on? Or perhaps counter sue for mental trauma...?
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

Robin said:
Well we sold the boat In Sept 2016 13 monthsa ago. today we received a threatening letter from the a-hole's attorney saying pay $3970 within 10 days OR be sued for the $75,000 sale price plus another $35,000 for other work a-hole claims to have done since. He claims we were contracted to fix a faulty windlass and flat battery before completion and handover. The windlass wasn't working as the battery it ran from was DEAD. A new battery was installed and lo and behold all was OK, verified by our boat mechanic and an email stating so sent to the buyer, who neither visited nor hsad anyone else do so before he authorised the final payment to be made via the selling broker. In the next 3 months I was besieged several times daily with dumb questions via text or email which I patiently answered before eventually saying enough was enough, warranty ceased on handover. IN between was hurricane Matthew and being a kind sould I kept watch over the boat and took pics of it and sent him.those immediately the storm was past, showing no damage not even a scratch. I heard later he tried to get his surveyor to visit and document damage so he could make a claim on his insurance, but the surveyor refused flat out.(there was NO damage) 3 months on and he says the windlass was not working as it was severely corroded- our fault because it should have been replaced but was not. He says it cost$3970 to replace then, some 3 months after the sale and money handover.

This is a nightmare! what to do. Ignore his attorney and call his bluff? pay up? flee the country? (we are going to leave as soon as our home sells anyway) Or get an attorney ourselves at a cost of course to respond? I left a message for hiss attorney to call me but am unsure if that was wise, I was merely planning to explain the circumstances in the hope he would see the futility of a claim. I still retain copies of the A-holes texts on my phone and his emails' plus have copies of bills for work we had done including the new battery for the windlass/engine and an email confirming that the windlass was now fully operational.

This is causing us severe stress.

Any helpful ideas please?
Click to expand...

You said you sold the boat 13 months ago ?
Is this the first you have heard of this ?
If so I wouldn't worry at all , any corrosion if there is any could had happen in that time spam , plus you have prove the windlass was working when money change hands .
You living in a country we're people want to sue for the slightest thing .
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

In the uk I believe there are legal guidelines to courts about ‘vexatious litigants’.

No idea what the legal position is in the USA (except their reputation for willingness to sue anyone and everything.) Point out to the attorney the futility of their claim and indicate how you will pursue all your costs against them if they continue to harass you? Best get some advice I guess?

Very sorry to hear of your situation. Give T our best wishes.
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

We have many barrack room lawyers here but I believe we also have at least one actual american lawyer. Might it be worth a new thread with a title like "US legal advice sought (boaty)" or something which might attract the attention of someone with skills in that area?

Is it not the case that stupid legal cases get brought in the US because it will cost more to fight them than to pay up? If I were indeed a barrack-room lawyer and still had all the texts and was inclined to fight, rather than just defending this accusation I might be inclined to explore the option of threatening to counter-file for harassment. But most of what I learned about US law was from watching petrocelli and that was generally about getting off murder raps so don't listen to me...
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

sailaboutvic said:
You said you sold the boat 13 months ago ?
Is this the first you have heard of this ?
If so I wouldn't worry at all , any corrosion if there is any could had happen in that time spam , plus you have prove the windlass was working when money change hands .
You living in a country we're people want to sue for the slightest thing .
Click to expand...

He first mentioned it and made a similar threat, by text ( still on my phone) in January 2017, 3 months after the sale . He also tried threatening the broker and the surveyor we understand. the boat is a 1998 beneteau oceanis so was 18 years old when sold and a year older now. I have an email from 20/9/16 from our boat maintenance company saying the windlass functioned after the new battery was installed by them. ( it was a 6V battery, another similar had been replaced previously the two combining to provide 12VDC
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

john_morris_uk said:
In the uk I believe there are legal guidelines to courts about ‘vexatious litigants’.

No idea what the legal position is in the USA (except their reputation for willingness to sue anyone and everything.) Point out to the attorney the futility of their claim and indicate how you will pursue all your costs against them if they continue to harass you? Best get some advice I guess?

Very sorry to hear of your situation. Give T our best wishes.
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Thanks and ours to you and G. The letter refers to us causing anguish to a senior which in florida is considered serious. Well the buyers are 77 and 68 and we are 72 and 70 so how that figures I know not. I will be so glad to get away from this litigious hell hole.
 
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Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

john_morris_uk said:
In the uk I believe there are legal guidelines to courts about ‘vexatious litigants’.

No idea what the legal position is in the USA (except their reputation for willingness to sue anyone and everything.) Point out to the attorney the futility of their claim and indicate how you will pursue all your costs against them if they continue to harass you? Best get some advice I guess?

Very sorry to hear of your situation. Give T our best wishes.
Click to expand...

I agree with John not to ignore the lawyer's letter but to write back, recorded delivery or whatever it's called in the States, saying that the claims are all false and that you have the documentation to disprove them in your possession and that if this correspondence is not ceased forthwith you will consider it to be harrassment (Google for whatever the US term is) and a cause of "anguish to a Senior".

Richard
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

Hi Robin, sorry to hear about this.

Personally, I would suggest a slightly different tack to John and Richard. The trouble with writing to the claimant's attorney is that you may either explicitly, or inadvertently say things which may subsequently be used against you in open court. One can try writing "Without Prejudice" at the top of the letter, but even this can occasionally be set aside depending on circumstances and the State in which the claim is lodged.

By writing yourself, you will also lay bare the fact that you are a legal rookie and the other side will use this to wind the hell out of you (is 'hell' allowed here still?) The exceptionally low level of the claim, however, suggests to me that the claimant is chancing his arm. That said, say anything remotely threatening or derogatory and one can almost guarantee that his side will find this far more interesting than a flat windlass battery.

I would therefore suggest that you seek sensibly priced legal advice, most likely followed by a boiler-plate letter to carefully guide this ball for six; perhaps you call it a home-run by now ;). We're all tempted to take a wild swing at loose ball, but if we're honest, it doesn't always work out.

Incidentally, there is a fully paid up legal eagle on the mobo thread (jfm) and he sometimes offers pro-bono legal insights of the very highest quality.

.
 
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Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

Sorry to hear this Robin

I'm with others. Whatever you do, don't ignore it. If you are selling your property you presumably already have a US attorney that you know and trust. Have a word with them and see if they can recommend someone for an initial consultation.

Resist the urge to get into a long drawn out exchange of letters between the lawyers as that will only make the lawyers fat. Instead after your attorneys first letter back repudiating the claim let them take you to court If your attorney thinks you will win. Chances are the scumbag buyer will back down.
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

I would not talk on the phone, a sign of weakness, and no legal git is going to be impressed by common sense, he is paid to pursue the case.

Confine any letter totally to facts:

You are distressed that the buyer is unhappy with his purchase
Point out that the buyer had a survey and that the sale was conducted under industry standard conditions. You responded to the findings of the survey by appointing outside contractors
That you have a note from the contractors showing the windlass was in working condition
That you have willingly responded to 26 texts/letter/ E Mails on the subject of boat's different systems and were happy to help a boating novice in other respects as well.
Maybe (but be very careful with this one):
- Boat ownership can be very trying and the yachtsman must accept that an 18 year old boat will have latent fair wear and tear which will gradually reveal itself. These irritations are part of used boat ownership, if it were not so no one would by new ones.
etc

Don't tell the legal bloke that you have tried to be helpful, don't say "I would have thought" or "surely". Don't try to get him on your side, he does not care.
Facts alone will sink the thing, the tone should be flat, more in sorrow than anger.
Don't make any threats - you do not want to ramp up the thing at this point.

Show your letter to someone who knows, before it goes off.

Get any people involved to reinforce their evidence to you - get your ducks in a line. Speak to the broker, vital
Don't pay up that would be crackers.

This is what I would do, but I am the usual Joe Soap. Very Best of Luck with it.
 
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Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

dom said:
Hi Robin, sorry to hear about this.

Personally, I would suggest a slightly different tack (snip)

.
Click to expand...

I was just going to suggest exactly the same. Don't contact them yourself, especially if it's stressing you, life's too short.

In the first instance get someone qualified to draft a reply and forget it.

________________________________
 
Re: PITA new owners UPDATE

You could also ask on CruisersForum under the time honoured 'a friend has this problem' format. At least there you'd be more likely to get answers from folk who understand the legal teritory you're currently in
 
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