PITA new owners

Another for only sending a letter from your legal representative. Shows you're serious. Certainly worth asking your lawyer about harassment and hassling a senior.

As a layman I would have thought that once the survey has been done on a second-hand boat, the agreed defects rectified or allowed for in the price, the seller is off the hook? Is Trumpland different?
 
snooks said:
Sounds like you should offer them one day's on board consultation - at a suitable day rate :0)
Click to expand...

We recently sold our last boat - via a broker. Quite a lot of consultation with the new owner and a survey done. Some faults admitted on our side and allowances made. The contract says quite clearly that after a survey is done and any accommodation has been made by the seller to the buyer , once funds are transferred , so are all risks. Sign here. End of story.
We had the same statement when purchasing our next boat (from Germany). It's only a windlass? Most can be repaired by any competent electric motor workshop? It is rather sad that negotiations have gone wrong....
 
pagoda said:
We recently sold our last boat - via a broker. Quite a lot of consultation with the new owner and a survey done. Some faults admitted on our side and allowances made. The contract says quite clearly that after a survey is done and any accommodation has been made by the seller to the buyer , once funds are transferred , so are all risks. Sign here. End of story.
We had the same statement when purchasing our next boat (from Germany). It's only a windlass? Most can be repaired by any competent electric motor workshop? It is rather sad that negotiations have gone wrong....
Click to expand...

the sale went through in Sept 2016. It is Now some 13 months after that this a-hole is demanding fukl refund of the purchase money, with menaces in the form of a law suit for full refund plus another big chunk for what he claims to have spent since. The boat meantime still sits in the same berth, never been out. or if it did the AIS trx was disabled as it has not shown on any tracking sites, nor do the marina office ever see it move.
 
I feel for you Robin.

The earlier advice on trying a US based forum would certainly be worth following as knowledge of the local legal situation could certainly assist you.

You have tried your best to assist the purchaser after the completion of the sale, to the point beyond what was normal. The boat never leaving the marina berth seems to show they are unable to manage handling it. It seems they are unhappy with their decision to purchase and feel they may have bitten off more than they can handle. Now it seems they are looking for a way to reverse their purchase and trying to make you refund them. In reality they should sell and take the loss, not you.

So involve a legal advisor to protect yourself and get him to deal with it. Also get them to advise that you are seniors and being harassed is causing undue stress. Any further communication will only be dealt with by a court of law and may cost them your legal fees and time.

Best of luck and please keep us informed.
 
I suspect that the buyer may be slightly senile unfortunately. I have to agree with only communicating via your own legal representative and I would also recommend that you do not show any weakness in your position, being slightly or subtly aggressive perhaps rather overtly confrontational. My experience with with the US legal system is limited to the corporate world but, whilst litigation is slightly more common the reputation for a litigious attitude is caused almost entirely by the practice of awarding punitive damages. In the few cases involving "small" sums of money and members of the public common sense has prevailed.

You need to understand what's going on at the other end - is the other party rational or is he merely a little confused and mis-guided but being pushed by another party, perhaps a lawyer he thinks he may be onto some easy money or something. You may find that, once the two legal beagles start talking, things aren't at all what they seem - that's more common than not. Even a legal shark is more likely to talk to another lawyer so your hands are rathered tied to my mind, unless you are confident enough with your records and position to to take him on yourself (I wouldn't recommend that at all).
 
I personally wouldn't now use a lawyer for anything other than my final mitigation hearing with Satan .... and that's only because they come two-a-penny down there. :ambivalence:

The other Guy wants to get you sucked into major expense and there's nothing like two lawyers talking to each other to start racking up the bills. :(

Richard
 
It is not possible to give any detailed advice here as neither the contract details, nor claim, nor jurisdiction are known at this point. It is fun to collectively dismiss lawyers as chancers, doctors as quacks and accountants as bean counters. But when you need one, you need one. A lawyer can only charge according to a fee schedule set out in a Letter of Engagement and good ones provide good value.

Personally, I don't like the sound of this 'harassment' claim at all; one can't be sure where it's going, but there is plenty of territory one would certainly not wish to see the other side camp out on.

Think of this as a game of chess; if one can play it, great; if not, hire someone who can. (IMHO)
 
I'll just throw in my two cents worth after reading through the entire thread;

Robin, I would go back and read carefully the contract of the bill of sale as provided by the broker at the time of sale which you and the new owner must have signed.
There has to be something in there about you surrendering ownership, transfer of liability, transfer of risk, etc. on completion of sale - or at least, after a limited time frame. After which the new owner assumes ownership of the entire liability of the boat (and everything in it and on it).
It may pay to get a legal bloke to read it over and summarise your liabilities and whether they have - I would have thought because of the time frame now - entirely expired.

The only communication you should have with the a-hole's lawyer is to express your 'surprise' that he isn't happy. That is all; no other word (dismay, upset, sadness) - just 'surprise'.
Do not go into any detail about all the help you gave him initially, that can be for later if required.
I know you've already spoken or left a phone message to his lawyer but just leave it there for now except to respond as above and no more.

Depressing reading and I hope you get things resolved very soon.
 
Very sorry to hear this latest development in this sad tale - when you seem to have tried to do everything to the best for the new owner.
As you know better than us, some things are very different in the USA (lawyers and guns being two) so little point in trying to give advice from this side of the water (though another poster’s suggestion of seeking insight from a US sailing forum).

One thing I would suggest. You have stated that your mobile phone text and calls records could be material to your position. It would be worth ensuring these are (a) securely backed up and (b) preferably copied in a readable format to your computer. Need both, as the former may be the only one legally admissible if push came to shove, but the latter is easier to help make your arguments. Ditto any emails. Not quite sure how best to do this (depends on phone type) but perhaps a separate thread here or the lounge with phone type would get a simple solution - or PM me and I will research.

Hope this turns out to be a damp squid and quickly resolved (but doesn’t feel like the nature of the other party).
 
Some very good advice here. A brief reply letter to the Lawyer setting out coldly and without any emotion the terms of sale and results of the survey, plus follow up that the issue with this windlass was resolved and you have reasonable proof - Invoice for works.

If you do not employ a lawyer at this stage you have no extra costs, but each letter you send his lawyer will cost him money. Indeed issue a follow up asking him to explain other facts raised such as harassing a senior and explain your own age, and harassment you are suffering from this vexatious threat of action.

Then another

Then another.

Rack this guys Lawyer's bill up as much as you can now.

I would also send JFM on the Mobo forum a polite request he reads your plight on this thread. He is a really good guy.
 
I will update when the outcome is known, but in the meantime my sincerest thanks to those who have given excellent advice and support, by private messages especially, they know who they are and I will comment more once the problem is fully resolved. Suffice to say we have written back refuting any claim, stating the true facts, no acusations, sarcasm or venom, even though sorely tempted.
 
Well two weeks on after written carefully crafted responses and all is quiet. Hopefully not tempting fate but beginning to relax a little. My sincere thanks to all for helpful comments and especially to Poecheng who went the extra mile and a good bit more:encouragement:. When we finally escape the US I will give a huge sigh of relief.;)
 
Robin said:
Well two weeks on after written carefully crafted responses and all is quiet. Hopefully not tempting fate but beginning to relax a little. My sincere thanks to all for helpful comments and especially to Poecheng who went the extra mile and a good bit more:encouragement:. When we finally escape the US I will give a huge sigh of relief.;)
Click to expand...

Really pleased to hear that Robin.
 
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions the wheels of lawyers grind quite slowly, your letter will have taken a day or so to arrive probably sat in an in tray for a day or so then he will have drafted a letter to the litigant which will be typed, checked and sent then they need to respond and the lawyer will consider their response perhaps even writing back to them. A month might be a better time frame but not necessarily.
 
petehb said:
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions the wheels of lawyers grind quite slowly, your letter will have taken a day or so to arrive probably sat in an in tray for a day or so then he will have drafted a letter to the litigant which will be typed, checked and sent then they need to respond and the lawyer will consider their response perhaps even writing back to them. A month might be a better time frame but not necessarily.
Click to expand...

noted.:ambivalence:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top