andy59
Well-Known Member
Will the new Squadron 41 hit the values of the Phantom 40 , or will they stay the same relative to market conditions . SWMBO has made her mind up so now not sure weather to hold of or do it now .
Phantom 40
- Thread starter andy59
- Start date
henryf
Well-Known Member
Get a Princess 42 then worst ways the new Squaddie 41 will be it`s equal, otherwise you`ll still have a better boat. 
What`s that in the back row, biased, me ? Don`t be so silly !
Just a thought mind.......
As ever keep smiling and enjoy the sunshine.
Henry
What`s that in the back row, biased, me ? Don`t be so silly !
Just a thought mind.......
As ever keep smiling and enjoy the sunshine.
Henry
andy59
Well-Known Member
LUV the princess , but still a bit over budget for us .
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Are you talking new P40 or used? If you're thinking about a used P40, then I don't think you have anything to worry about because the new Sq41 will be in a different price bracket, even when it starts appearing on the used market. If you're thinking new, then I think the Sq41 is a better buy from the resale point of view simply because they won't sell that many new because of current market conditions and when they start appearing on the used market in 2-3 yrs time, a used Sq41 will fetch nearly new price because of it's scarcity. In contrast, there will be a far greater number of P40's on the used market and prices will be much softer
All IMHO but, if there isn't a huge difference in price, I'd try to stretch to a Sq41 on the basis that you'll lose less in depreciation in the long run. Apart from that, of course, the Sq41 is going to be a nicer boat
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
If you're looking for a new one, then may be worth waiting as the dealers will want to shift stock boats quickly when the Sq41 arrives. I agree Deleted User's comments on depreciation, but I think you could find a huge price difference between an end of line stock 40, and a new 41.
andy59
Well-Known Member
Surely fairline wont keep churning out stock boats ( P40 ) if they are aiming to create interest in SQ 41 . Would brand new bargains not take away demand for new model or does the cachet of having the latest model outweigh the additional cost .
Illusion
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling there'll be quite a jump in price from a current new stock boat P40 compared to a new Squadron 41 when they're available next Sept. I think (as it's already been said), this will put the 41 in a different league to any 2nd hand 40's that may be on the market, therefore the 2nd hand price should hold up pretty well, as they currently do compared to other circa 40ft flybridge boats such as the Princess 42 & Sealine.
Being a Phantom 40 owner, obviously I have a vested interest!
Being a Phantom 40 owner, obviously I have a vested interest!
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I dunno. It depends where they think they are going to position the Sq41 pricewise. They might well think that just because they call it a Squadron, some punters are going to be fooled into paying over the odds in which case there might still be a demand for the P40. But actually my guess would be that the Sq41 is basically a P40 with knobs on and both models use the same moulds in which case the P40 will be phased out. I also guess that this is part of a strategy to ditch the Phantom brand and all flybridge Fairlines will be Squadrons in the future which IMHO is a fair strategy as the 40-50ft flybridge market is reputedly very tough at present and anything Fairline can do to make their model range more attractive in this size range is good
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, most small flybridges are still built for stock rather than built to order, so Fairline will put pressure on the dealers to continue to order stock P40's even in the current climate and with a replacement coming, maybe by offering them discounts. The dealers probably wont be too averse to this, as they can always sell them at the right price.
jfm
Well-Known Member
No, all new moulds Deleted User. Sq41 is an all new boat, not a phantom 40 evo
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
OK, thnks. The P40 has been around for quite a while now so maybe it was time for a new hull. Any idea what the list price differential between the current P40 and the new Sq41 will be?
jfm
Well-Known Member
No idea about price and I expect it hasn't been set yet. As you know FL are pricing themselves higher, sort of BMW brandbuilding (BMW being the only company that can charge £22k for a Mini, which is a nice car but the supply/demand curve would intersect at £14k if it had a Kia badge), so I'd expect Sq41 list price will be praps £125k higher than Ph40 list, like for like, but that's a guess. That said, it'll be high build quality and high spec
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
No doubt about that. Sq 55, admittedly with some extras, was £950k list ex tax at the boat show. I have to say though I liked it more second time around, especially the interior styling. I still think it has some shortcomings, particularly lack of storage on the aft half of the boat, but the saloon, galley, dinette layout is great, cabins are good, and fly is well laid out if a bit exposed. Oops, thread drift ...
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Wow, £125k higher is a lot of dough for 1ft more of boat, albeit with glitzy furnishings. Is anyone going to buy it when they can get a Princess 42, which is really the benchmark in this class, for less? Not sure that charging a premium price for your products is the right strategy in a price sensitive market and you have to build the brand first before you raise the prices, not afterwards
BMW are not the only car company offering less for more. Audi do very well selling VW's for 20% more than VW sell them at and 30% more than Skoda sell them at!
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
actually I see a Fairline trend strategy towards becoming more competitive in recent times, may be more so to Princess
the new Fairline 44 Targa Open is a good case in point, this boat used to be priced as a 44 Targa GT (hardtop) at 400UK£ with Volvo IPS500
now Fline reconfigured the model in open, with stern drives D4-300hp, sterndrive joystick, 4 kw generator, gas cooker versus electic hob starting at 290 UK£
so I would not be surprised to see a competitive 41 Squadron, in line with similar prices to the 40 Phantom, albeit a bit more
I also think that new moulds will have to be made for the new 41 Squadron, first because the 40Phan is now six years old, and unless you dont wax them for every two boats I am sure they have seen there day and time
second I see a lot of difference in the design renderings of the new 41 which even if based on the same hull shape new moulds will have to be made
the new Fairline 44 Targa Open is a good case in point, this boat used to be priced as a 44 Targa GT (hardtop) at 400UK£ with Volvo IPS500
now Fline reconfigured the model in open, with stern drives D4-300hp, sterndrive joystick, 4 kw generator, gas cooker versus electic hob starting at 290 UK£
so I would not be surprised to see a competitive 41 Squadron, in line with similar prices to the 40 Phantom, albeit a bit more
I also think that new moulds will have to be made for the new 41 Squadron, first because the 40Phan is now six years old, and unless you dont wax them for every two boats I am sure they have seen there day and time
second I see a lot of difference in the design renderings of the new 41 which even if based on the same hull shape new moulds will have to be made
Powersalt
Well-Known Member
So what would you change on your phantom if you could? What would you want the new s41 to have on it?? Oh and is the new 41 any bigger
strakeryrius
Well-Known Member
I wasn't that impressed with the Sq55 - all those steps up and down everywhere. Every single section of the saloon, galley, helm etc all had one or more steps up or down into them. The whole boat felt like "stuff" had been shoehorned into it. On the Sq65 next door it had virtually the same level of equipment but all felt a lot less cluttered and busy, due to the extra space, and far fewer steps too.
Powersalt
Well-Known Member
Maybe a mistake but I have alweays assumed Princess and Fairline both make boats in the traditional way. Both hand assembly and hand fitted out. Whereas Prestige and the likes use quick production methods to cut costs and sometimes finish. So Princess and Fairline are the same build quality. Is that correct
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
many if not all boats are hand built including Prestige, there is not much difference between a Prestige a Fairline or Princess the way it is built, the difference might more exist in some components rather then the way it is build
I think Prestige Jeanneau being part of Beneteau core all there hulls with Balsa, but am not sure about the Prestige line
Princess has jumped now on the vacuum infusion building method on its boats started with the V78, then V62 and now 78 Motor Yacht, I think the plan is that in 2 years time all the range will be built this way
Azimut was the first in using infusion building method of the big builders, starting in 2006 all there hulls under from the smaller to the 72S are resin infused with Diab Divinycell coring, the bigger ones are still built in a traditional way
Sunseeker infuses its super structures and started this way I think in 2004
I think Prestige Jeanneau being part of Beneteau core all there hulls with Balsa, but am not sure about the Prestige line
Princess has jumped now on the vacuum infusion building method on its boats started with the V78, then V62 and now 78 Motor Yacht, I think the plan is that in 2 years time all the range will be built this way
Azimut was the first in using infusion building method of the big builders, starting in 2006 all there hulls under from the smaller to the 72S are resin infused with Diab Divinycell coring, the bigger ones are still built in a traditional way
Sunseeker infuses its super structures and started this way I think in 2004
Powersalt
Well-Known Member
Get a Princess 42 then worst ways the new Squaddie 41 will be it`s equal, otherwise you`ll still have a better boat.
What`s that in the back row, biased, me ? Don`t be so silly !
Just a thought mind.......
As ever keep smiling and enjoy the sunshine.
Henry
JUst been looking at nthe plans of the sq 41. Its sligthly shorter than the p42, what it does have going for it is a lot more light and windows. in the cabins and galley area. Fantastic en suits and dare I say it something Princess are way behind on ""space to fit the modern larger radar and chart screens""
