petrol additives

[ghilliedhu]

I have a small yacht with a marinised Briggs and Stratton petrol engine ( Watermota Super Shrimp).
I normally only use the engine for getting on and off moorings and so after a month or so I feel that the petrol in the tank starts to become stale. Is there an additive that keeps petrol fresh?

 

[QuietFlight]

B & S actually have a product which is used as an upper cylinder lubricant for use with unleaded fuel in mowers. It also keeps carbs un gummed, makes the motor run smoother and helps with any engine knock as well as keeping the fuel in good condition when the motor is not being used. Any good mower dealer will stock it. It comes in a small 250 ml plastic bottle, the contents last forever and only costs about £8.

 

[angelsson]

By some Soltron, its on E-bay

 

[Guest]

Petrol vs Diesel additives ...

Being in the Fuel Quality business ........ I am really curious about the Soltron web-site claiming use of product in Gasoline, Diesel and Fuel Oils .......... amazing .................. I've been in the wrong business all these years.

Actually to put it correctly - without the horsing around - no additive does all grades of Petroleum - sorry haven't seen one, no industrial additive company I know has ever heard of one ..... so using same additive across a rabge of grades is only by compromise.

The price of additives should be carefully weighed against its actual use - as cost runs can be significant.

To the original post with the Briggs and Stratton ... I have a Garden Tractor :>

with a 11HP B&S engine ... at end of season it goes into my shed and emerges 4-5 months later ......... I live in Latvia where winter is a serious biz !! I don't drain of fuel, I leave the old oil in ... etc. When I bring it out of hibernation - I change the oil and top up fuel ... QED>

Happy Days !!

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[DepSol]

Re: Petrol vs Diesel additives ...

Then why dont you just run some tests on it or are you scared you will find out it does what it says and then have to change your way of thinking! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Guest]

Old hat ...

Address of lab and offer was given as you well know ... but I am a commercial and you have to pay - that 's where I remembered it stopped.

I never said it didn't work - please find a post or comment that says different from me ???

I didn't like your use of Forums to sell it ...... literally free advertising - which I see you have stopped doing.

I am not against anyones product and the original argument was based on some specific claims you made against others product - which if you remember I 'bombed' you for. I don't rubbish others - I just get on with my work and supply.
As regards this one - I am in literally daily contact with the worlds best and biggest suppliers of Additives components that are supplied to virtually all blenders of additives - as ALL additives are basically blends of similar products FACT. The main difference coming from individual requirements and blends ..... I have contacted all of them at various times regarding various treatments we want to do ...... far wider than anything you have even dreamed of I'm sure !! And the answer never changes ... and occasionally I question about Bacterial treatment and additives available etc. etc. Components for Enzyme Additives comes up sometimes.

This is where I leave this subject alone - as it will get beyond the tolerance and remit of this forum.
I am a patient person and tolerant of others - not going out to hurt others in business or personal - so this road ends here.

 

[charles_reed]

That\'s U

in the trailer.

Well I never!!!

 

[charles_reed]

Fuel additives

I remember the red face (and costs) that Shell incurred when their new petrol burnt the valves in the (then new) GM Cavalier and all the UK police forces dunned them for repair bills.

Your most significant loss is going to be the volatile fractions in the petrol - my mower always evaporates away the last of the petrol in its Briggs and Stratton engine - but unlikely to be damaging over the course of a season.

I do use, as a prophylactic measure when I'm leaving the boat for a long time (> 1 month), a biocide in the diesel tank. I've seen a can go solid in a fortnight in the sun (in the tropics).

Despite the (IMHO) overvaunted claims of various additive manufacturer I do not believe that any additive offers a cure once your fuel system has been infected. The only sure cure is to have the system out and everything steam-cleaned.

 

[Guest]

In the trailer ....

My wifes, brothers son .....

The trailer is actually a sand-pit (boat) from local supermarket mounted on a couple of DIY store wheels and studding for axle. The axle held in place by large U bolts up into the bottom of trailer ... braced by a plank running forward and providing for the hitch.
Total cost about 30 quid .....

Kids love it .... and when they come round all ask for rides !!! Keeps me out of mischief and parents happy ...

 

[Guest]

Mmmmmmmmm Charles ...

The Shell we are referring to had addition of Permanganate and Potassium if I remember right ....... which increased the temperature sufficiently in the upper cylinder to cause pitting of valves etc. Shell had to withdraw the grade and lost a lot over it. But the grade was resurrected recently again without the addition and is called V-Power !! OK - so I cannot swear I am correct on this as we are not involved in testing this grade.

It actually has no bearing on the original post - but interesting that it is remembered !!

Now ... onto add's - you are actually wrong - sorry as I have great respect for your contributions to the forums ... - but additive does kill of the bugs - if used correctly. But problem is that succesive refills of the tank will re-introduce the bugs over time. There is no diesel that is free of the bug - it is purely a matter of time until it becomes a problem. Commercially available diesel is cleaned enough to be 'trouble-free' but with all the mixing of sourced diesel - impossible to remain all-time free of it.

I do not advocate continuous use of any biocide or additive unless conditions / tests indicate otherwise. Mainly because it is wasted money .... so you go to a certain marina / fuel barge because fuel is few pence cheaper and then spend a gob-lot on additive !!! When actually you did that last fill up ... etc. etc. Save the stuff and use sparingly at intervals - to keep control.

It really does surprise me about this whole subject .... the bull and gossip that prevails ..... not you Charles - but various comments and posts that get put out ....

Sensible husbandry, sensible approach to it .......

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[charles_reed]

Re: Mmmmmmmmm Charles ...

I should perhaps been clearer.

Additives are little use AFTER infection - the killed bugs just block everything up - far better to prevent any build-up by using a preventative biocide.

I tend to not buy from shoreside bunkers, especially at the beginning of the season. But then I'm lucky, my sailing is in areas where there's no duty-free diesel, no high-sulphur, high-ash fuel.
Purchase from pumps moving road diesel.

An interesting CA thread from Frank Singleton who suffered an infection from diesel he bought in Fertilia, just re-inforced the above observation.

 

[chippie]

Re: Mmmmmmmmm Charles ...

Nigel, have you ever had any research done on the addition of acetone to petrol?
I saw an American site (which I have forgotten the name of)that made lots of claims regarding it.

 

[DepSol]

Re: Mmmmmmmmm Charles ...

[ QUOTE ]
Additives are little use AFTER infection - the killed bugs just block everything up - far better to prevent any build-up by using a preventative biocide.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree on one count.... Soltron will make sludge dissapear....it is not a biocide.

 

[Guest]

Gasoline add\'s

Acetone to Gasoline - what the hell for ???? I can only assume that they wish to break up the gums / parafins that my be lurking .... other than that - all it will do is make it more potent !! But within a very short time vapourise off ... and so benefit is short lived.

The US market on Gasoline is a difficult market as they outlaw various alcohols that are added to boost it ... making the blend change often .... ie 2004 Us blend is significantly different from 2005 ....

eg - US banned the use of MTBE to boost gasoline ... so ETBE was used .... few months on that was banned !! So now they use derivatives of extremely light 'near' gas products ... I will not name them for commercial reasons - I'm not allowed to !!

Euro Gasoline has various additives in that US gasoline does not - so any development on US market is not therefore immediate benefit to Euro market ... it can in fact worsen our gasoline.

In terms of additives for any fuel - the fuel market is not a steady market and therefore additives have to move with it ... we maintain a lab that works closely with this and monitors on behalf of fuel traders THEIR actions and we may have the job at times to improve the quality or remove certain traits. The subject is one that is fraught with complications and needs chemistry knowledge ... along with Fuel Blending experience - so even I get lost with it ... and have to refer to my lab people .... !!

So the conclusion is - what is good for US market is only US ... Euro Market has its own problems and needs ....

Final comment .......... the advent of modern day single grade gasoline based on 95 octane may not be the god-send expected ... previously if you are old enough - you can remember the days of 91, 93, 95, 97 and 99 octanes .... with cars designed to run on specific grades ......... that was actually in the days when gasoline was near enough gasoline .... far cry from the blended rubbish that is on market today ..... OOPS - shouldn't say that should I !!!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[the_wanderer]

If the engine does not fire up on petrol that is less than six months old I would think that there may be something wrong with the engine. My twenty five year old Honda outboard motor will fire up on fuel left in the tank over the winter on the second or third pull. IMHO additives are only a way to separate the engine owner, boat, gardener, car, etc. from his hard earned cash. Maintain good plugs, ignition system and fuel system and you should have no trouble. One point I might add is that fuel tanks tend to condense water vapour from the air. this ends up in the carburettor float chamber and causes havoc. It is a good idea to empty the chamber periodically and drain the fuel tank and separate out the accumulated water etc.

 

[Guest]

adds are there in blend for good reason

Without getting too technical ... one of the biggest problems with gasoline nowadays is the blend having various components that gum up or reduce the storage life. So Companys who blend add special additives like anti-oxidants etc. to extend the storage and reduce gumming.

I am against 'retail' additives as I have seen so far as they often are based on old blends and possibly have not moved with the times and kept pace with todays blends. It then becomes debatable as to what effect they really have. To the person in the street - they would feel that they are getting what they pay for .... maybe - but I'm sure I coulkd give you a bottle of another volatile liquid and you add that as same and have exactly the same feeling .... but of course I would not tell you what I gave you !!!!

The oil traders spend a lot on getting their additives right ..... I know as I operate additives as part of my biz. We are always evaluating change of blends / additives etc. etc. as a continuing process .....

By the way .... I use old 'petrol' in my outboards, strimmer, tractor etc., etc. without any additions ..... if the container has been left not sealed tight - then I will possibly add fresh 'petrol' to 'freshen' it up ..... but I do not throw it away !!