Petition to stop lobster traps trapping us

[Daydream believer]

For a start yachtsmen are not standing with their heads out of a small wheelhouse on a maneuverable motorboat in which the helmsman knows where the pot is to start with. Secondly it is blatantly obvious that in any sort of tide a 5 litre can does not provide sufficient buoyancy for it to stay on the surface. The pull on the line , coupled with a bit of weed etc soon drags it flush with the surface, or just below. Thirdly the colour you suggest does not show up against the background at night.
In waves a 5 litre can which , by virtue of its size, can hardly stick more than 250mm above the waterline even without the effect of the weight below is almost impossible to see in time for a yacht to alter course in time to miss it.
A yacht helmsman is not just watching for pots , he has to keep a lookout for other vessels, navigation marks & watch his sails & controls of his own yacht. He needs random obstruction to be clearly marked to give him any chance of missing them. He cannot just cut the engine in a second & stop or zig zag in the same way that a crab boat may do. The appendages on a yacht, keel, rudder, saildrive etc dig deeper in the water than that of a small motorboat, plus in certain situations are moving sideways. That makes them far more susceptible to hooking such obstructions.
Having watched the antics of some crab boats I would suggest that some yachtsmen ( although I accept not all!!!)are far more aware of the world around them than the skippers of the crab boats.

 

[ripvan1]

i am not a sailor so are you saying that people in cockpits have difficulty arranging themselves so they can see clearly ahead

Lenten- that is exactly what I'm saying especially if the boat is heeled (leaning) over or if on a motorboat with very high sides, and as Daydream mentions above far better than me - we have other things to worry about whereas most potters these days just set their GPS and steam straight to their pot - they only need to see them at the last minute - we on the other hand need to SEE them well in advance to take whatever action may be needed which of course if they're dark 5 litre markers ain't going to happen. With tall visible potmarkers most boat users I know will go out of their way to avoid them and be quite happy doing so. Why don't you do everyone a favour and educate the 5 litre merchants to wise up or is there a reason for not doing so that I'm missing?

 

[lenten]

single handing ----yes---most of the time---no gps---no auto pilot----mainly trawling nights----or oyster dredging days

 

[lenten]

. Why don't you do everyone a favour and educate the 5 litre merchants to wise up or is there a reason for not doing so that I'm missing?[/QUOTE]--------------------why should i?--------i can see them day or night-----it would be better if you went to the fish dock in the camber and explained to the fishermen how poor the forward visibility is on a sailing boat----good luck

 

[longjohnsilver]

. Why don't you do everyone a favour and educate the 5 litre merchants to wise up or is there a reason for not doing so that I'm missing?

--------------------why should i?--------i can see them day or night-----it would be better if you went to the fish dock in the camber and explained to the fishermen how poor the forward visibility is on a sailing boat----good luck[/QUOTE]

Well full marks for persistence, although I think you are almost completely alone in saying that blue 5 litre cans are easily visible day and night. On the positive side, I guess we should be thankful you didn't use 1 litre plastic milk bottles!

 

[lenten]

clarification-----none of these floats are mine----i am a retired fisherman----i fished 100 single creels-----12 foot boat in the paternoster reef---north coast of jersey---in those days there were no viable depthsounders/fisherfinders for small boats ----- but the atlantic swells produced different water patterns on the surface and i was always trying to read the water to work out depths ---isolated rocks etc---when i came to portsmouth i carried on reading the water and i still do now---perhaps this is why i see small bouys easier than most

 

[sailaboutvic]

I not sure what the legal requirements are If you get caught up in a pot or net ,
but I for one would make sure that the object would never be able to be used again ,
As for the guy who thinks it's ok to use blue plastic containers, who project himself as a professional fishermen you should be ashame of your self .
You should be looking after the environment where you make your living not littering it with dangerous rubbish .

 

[Paddy Layback]

I not sure what the legal requirements are If you get caught up in a pot or net ,
but I for one would make sure that the object would never be able to be used again ,
As for the guy who thinks it's ok to use blue plastic containers, who project himself as a professional fishermen you should be ashame of your self .
You should be looking after the environment where you make your living not littering it with dangerous rubbish .

Well said!

 

[PilotWolf]

As I've said before I've maybe have snagged 2 or 3 in many years at sea - usually with towed survey equipment, never with the vessel.

5 gallon cans would be a luxury here - this is what we have to deal with - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Danielson-Crab-Pot-Float-Red-White/16877476 - we run multiple vessels and trips a day, 18 hrs a day/7 days a week/52 weeks a year and I'm only aware of 2 incidents in the past year or so...

Difference between professional crew look out and leisure crew look out maybe?

PW

 

[Daydream believer]

Difference between professional crew look out and leisure crew look out maybe?
PW

I am aware of a number of professionals & "ex professionals" who sail for a hobby & have the same problem as other "leisure" sailors. I do not believe that being a "professional " gives them better eyesight , or indeed trains them to be better "spotters"
I would suggest that being at the helm of a motor boat traveling on the same route time & time again; so one can familiarise ones self with the obstructions around one; makes it far easier than being at the helm at the back of a yacht, on a path that they may not have sailed before, or relatively infrequently.
I would further suggest that the appendages below the waterline of a yacht makes it far more likely that a snagged pot will remain snagged. Particularly so, bearing mind the slower speed, whereby the line will not be thrown off by the water flow as I suspect (subject for debate perhaps) it might in a fast moving craft

 

[PilotWolf]

I am aware of a number of professionals & "ex professionals" who sail for a hobby & have the same problem as other "leisure" sailors. I do not believe that being a "professional " gives them better eyesight , or indeed trains them to be better "spotters"
I would suggest that being at the helm of a motor boat traveling on the same route time & time again; so one can familiarise ones self with the obstructions around one; makes it far easier than being at the helm at the back of a yacht, on a path that they may not have sailed before, or relatively infrequently.
I would further suggest that the appendages below the waterline of a yacht makes it far more likely that a snagged pot will remain snagged. Particularly so, bearing mind the slower speed, whereby the line will not be thrown off by the water flow as I suspect (subject for debate perhaps) it might in a fast moving craft

I would suggest that just maybe they keep a proper look out, don't single hand and don't use AP so they can sleep. I worked all around the UK and Europe - only a couple of places were regular 'haunts'. We made the effort to communicate and research when we were working or visiting a new area.

Yes now I'm on a regular route but that doesn't change that the 'fishermen' - professional or 'pikey' move there gear regularly, sometimes too close to channels, BUT the fishing gear could equally be a floating log, a rope discarded or lost by a pleasure boat, here whales are an issue - even for big ships.

If you hit a traffic cone on the motorway or worse still something fallen from another vehicle is that your fault for not looking where you're going or the fault of the person that 'put' it there?

W.

 

[Robin]

As I recall, French markers were generally tall with flags atop and often lit at night too, albeit dimly. How come they are so much better than the 'cheat the dole' cowboys of the south coast/Solent who can only afford cheap floating rope, though plenty of it to be a real trap, and dirty old plastic cans. The French ones were even visible on small boat radar.

 

[Paddy Layback]

.... don't single hand....

W.

With all due respect, go and get stuffed.

 

[Daydream believer]

I would suggest that just maybe they keep a proper look out, don't single hand and don't use AP so they can sleep. I worked all around the UK and Europe - only a couple of places were regular 'haunts'. We made the effort to communicate and research when we were working or visiting a new area.

Yes now I'm on a regular route but that doesn't change that the 'fishermen' - professional or 'pikey' move there gear regularly, sometimes too close to channels, BUT the fishing gear could equally be a floating log, a rope discarded or lost by a pleasure boat, here whales are an issue - even for big ships.

If you hit a traffic cone on the motorway or worse still something fallen from another vehicle is that your fault for not looking where you're going or the fault of the person that 'put' it there?

W.

Research the area-- Oh so how does a a yacht en route down the east coats of the UK research where some dick has stuck poorly marked pots
Too close to channel-- actually right in the middle of channels - narrow ones right between rocks - I can quote Eyemouth harbour where I came in late at night & narrowly missed a pot right on the leading marks. If I had fouled it I would have been on the rocks in seconds. the harbour master did not know of its presence or who had placed it there. He was unable to move it.
Discarded items- One accepts that fishing boats may loose parts of their nets. They do not do that deliberately , they are too expensive. Likewise logs floating at sea are always a possible hazard. however, these are not "deliberate avoidable" hazards as are silly little pot markers placed by irresponsible pikey fishermen.

Incidentally, Road works contractors have a duty of care to maintain road markings such as cones & can face serious fines if found to be in breach- So I am glad you used that comparison because that is precisely what we as yachtsmen would like to see used with unreasonable fishermen

 

[chrishscorp]

As I recall, French markers were generally tall with flags atop and often lit at night too, albeit dimly. How come they are so much better than the 'cheat the dole' cowboys of the south coast/Solent who can only afford cheap floating rope, though plenty of it to be a real trap, and dirty old plastic cans. The French ones were even visible on small boat radar.

You must mean like these ......... photographed last Saturday on the approach to St Vaast, dozens of them, made it very easy to sail around them. I would say 95%+ of all their gear was marked like this.

 

[Yealm]

Apologies for repeating a post, but I'm interesting to know what the legal position is, if one removes a poorly marked pot that is clearly a hazard to shipping ?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Apologies for repeating a post, but I'm interesting to know what the legal position is, if one removes a poorly marked pot that is clearly a hazard to shipping ?

If you spot it, to remove it, is it 'clearly a hazard to shipping'?

 

[Yealm]

yes !

 

[Deleted member 36384]

yes !

I would suggest it is not if you can safely navigate around it.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Apologies for repeating a post, but I'm interesting to know what the legal position is, if one removes a poorly marked pot that is clearly a hazard to shipping ?

In Scotland I suggest that it is not illegal to lift and check: -

Elsewhere, the Scottish Sea Fisheries Council stipulates that no commercial gain can be made from recreational sea fishing, but does not regulate recreational fishing; it places no restrictions on the number of shellfish that may be caught by the hobby or recreational fishermen. They are permitted to keep a stock pot and the checking and landing of others’ pots is a matter for the individuals concerned.