Pesky electrickery

[boatone]

Had many "engine won't start" probs over the years but now I have an "engine won't stop" problem !

 

[prof pat pending]

That's not good...can't drop the clutch and stall it

What engine is it?

 

[watson1959]

Had many "engine won't start" probs over the years but now I have an "engine won't stop" problem !

Send us a postcard when you get to Gib'

 

[boatone]

What engine is it?

Take a guess …. boaty forum, innit ?

 

[prof pat pending]

Yep, but then I'm not the guy with an engine problem....just a lowly engineer

 

[boatone]

Vilevo TMD22A - stop solenoid not working. Had to use fuel cut-off.
Probably a dodgy connection somewhere - just need to find it :-(

 

[prof pat pending]

Is that code for Volvo?

I guess it could be the solenoid itself, you can find most of them quite cheaply if you hunt around ... but I guess you know not to look for anything with marine in the title

I'd start looking at the earthing first though

 

[Jcorstorphine]

In the early 60s, a friend of mine had an ancient hand start Kelvin Petrol / Paraffin of about 60 to 80 HP ish (it was a bl00dy big engine)

On nearing his mooring, his usual procedure was to change back to petrol to make sure the carb was primed ready to start on petrol next time he hand started the engine.

However on one occasion after a 12 hour cruise and having switched over to petrol he found the gearbox would not come out of forward so he started to circle his mooring.

He decided the easiest thing was just to stop the engine so he grounded the magneto but the engine kept going. His thought was that the dam head was so hot that there was glowing carbon at the plugs keeping it going like a hot bulb diesel so he turned off the fuel. Several minutes passed and the engine still kept going so he kept circling the mooring. His next thought was that the engine was now running on oil fumes as the engine oil was probably pretty diluted with paraffin.

By now the engine was running a bit lumpy but the huge flywheel kept it banging away. He finally stuck a bit of handy plywood over the air intake and it stopped.

40 years later when I built and engine from a pile of bits, I made sure I had a means of stopping the air to the inlet manifold in case the engine either ran away or did not stop. An engine runaway is a very scary event!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zx3qKX_Pno

 

[prof pat pending]

It is indeed as a large number of Renault 1.9 diesel owners can testify, but that usually down to them ingesting their own engine oil.

 

[boatone]

Is that code for Volvo?
I guess it could be the solenoid itself, you can find most of them quite cheaply if you hunt around ... but I guess you know not to look for anything with marine in the title
I'd start looking at the earthing first though

Not so much code as a frequently used term of affection(?) for the brand!

A dodgy earth connection has been suggested by several people I have consulted especially as there have been a few other unexplained odd happenings such as alarm lights and erratic tacho response. Looks like its all the furniture out of the cabin again so I can get down and do a thorough check of all connections around engines and batteries etc. Yuk !

 

[Geoffs]

Had the same problem with my Vilevo, turned to be a blown fuse, but I didn't know that.

Had to call out Sea Start, but I really wanted Sea Stop.

 

[gordontytler]

Unfortunately my engines also have a solenoid and if I flick the wrong switch the stop button does nothing. I would rather have a steel cable to pull. The engines are old enough to have no ECU or common rail, which is good, but there is a computer in the diesel heater. I think a wood burning stove would be hotter and work when needed. I am fed up with clever things that don't last. My new LED lighting and lots of electronics didn't survive the winter and how long before the electric toilet breaks? A hand pump is better. I am not saying new technology is always bad but often less reliable than a simpler solution that does the same task. Electric rudder position indicator is another example.

 

[prof pat pending]

I don't think that there's anything wrong with the technology....it's just that the bean counters stop the engineers doing the job properly

 

[boatone]

I don't think that there's anything wrong with the technology....it's just that the bean counters stop the engineers doing the job properly

By which I assume you mean that things are being built down to a price/profit formula rather than reliability target?

 

[prof pat pending]

By which I assume you mean that things are being built down to a price/profit formula rather than reliability target?

I'm afraid I do...it's a sad fact of modern life I'm afraid

I used to work under the umbrella of a major automotive manufacturer
It became common practice to build down to a price, to the point that they realised they were losing customers due to bad quality cars, it was costing extra in warranty claims and more than offsetting the extra profit made in the first place

 

[boatone]

Quick visit this afternoon (well, was meant to be quick but we won't mention the gridlocked traffic J8-J11 M25) and managed to rig a makeshift stop cable to the injector pump stop lever - just a length of electrical cable threaded through a hole in the lever plate and led back to the raw water filter inspection hatch. I thought it was seized but turned out I was trying to pull it wrong way as indestructions said "pull lever backwards" but didn't say it was bottom of lever that needed pulling !!!!!
Leccy booked for full on assault on connections and earthing but not for a couple of weeks

 

[boatone]

It was beginning to look as if the stop solenoid itself had failed, normal checks showed power was reaching it.
Yesterday I decided to ask for assistance from the PBO forum and learned things about my engine that I had not realised previously.
Unlike many engines, the engine block is not connected directly to 12v -ve. When the stop position on the switch is selected 12v +ve is applied to the solenoid but, at the same time, a 12v-ve is temporarily applied to the engine block to complete the circuit.
Tests this morning have proved the solenoid is working ok and the fault lies somewhere in the earthing side of things as many suspected.
Greatly relieved that I don't need to spend around £250+ on a new solenoid !

 

[prof pat pending]

You can get them cheaper than that, just ddon't look for something marine, and don't go to Volvo.... Manufacturers part number can help a lot on Google

I suspect that you have a -ve loom fitted to that engine which would be worth checking over,

 

[Latestarter1]

It was beginning to look as if the stop solenoid itself had failed, normal checks showed power was reaching it.
Yesterday I decided to ask for assistance from the PBO forum and learned things about my engine that I had not realised previously.
Unlike many engines, the engine block is not connected directly to 12v -ve. When the stop position on the switch is selected 12v +ve is applied to the solenoid but, at the same time, a 12v-ve is temporarily applied to the engine block to complete the circuit.
Tests this morning have proved the solenoid is working ok and the fault lies somewhere in the earthing side of things as many suspected.
Greatly relieved that I don't need to spend around £250+ on a new solenoid !

Seems like a lack of of knowledge of vessels engine installation has caused a simple issue to become a real buggers muddle. Lots of beating of breasts and silly talk about technology and building down to a price, good engine however hardly technology or modern, quite the opposite.

Yes the Perkins Prima used by Volvo is a little quirky, majority being built to SOLAS standards i.e using ATS solenoid instead of ATR in the Bosch VE pump, why?? This particular motor sold in large numbers for ships lifeboats, hence being built to SOLAS standard, however by a twist Volvo found it less costly to sell the more expensive main stream spec into to pleasure market hence your engine being ATS.

Bosch solenoids are super reliable particularly the ATS (Activate To Stop) type, yes they are a bit expensive from Bosch, around £75 - £90 with pattern ones from Durite being less expensive, certainly not £250!

Bit surprised OP did not acquaint himself with location of stop lever when purchasing the boat. However all just a case of RTFM.

 

[boatone]

Bosch solenoids are super reliable particularly the ATS (Activate To Stop) type, yes they are a bit expensive from Bosch, around £75 - £90 with pattern ones from Durite being less expensive, certainly not £250!

Bit surprised OP did not acquaint himself with location of stop lever when purchasing the boat. However all just a case of RTFM.

Would be interested to know of any specific source as have completely failed to find anyone offering a direct replacement ATS version. Not that I need one now that I have verified the existing unit is not faulty, but would be useful info for the future.

Was perfectly aware of location of the stop lever - any one that knows me will tell you I am an advocate of RTFM in the extreme ! Unfortunately on my boat, as on many others I expect, actually accessing the lever easily/quickly is not possible so without a stop cable installed using it to stop the engine at every lock was not an option. If you had read my earlier posts you would have seen that I subsequently rigged a temporary stop cable which can be easily accessed.