Personal locator beacons

[MystyBlue2]

Well maybe ive been mislead BUT unless the internals of these PLB batteries are brand new tech and made of a special substance that wont discharge over time or temp changes then i would still probs get them seen too annually.

My guess is there's nowt but a bunch of watch batteries stuck together and closed in a sealed unit. Non rechargeable, And battery life is not guaranteed.

I would be sceptical of 10years for definite! I maybe wrong but i recon thats more for marketing than realism.

My car battery has a life of 10years or something close to it, But if i left it on the drive the whole winter without starting/charging i can guarantee that, That battery WILL be flat in spring and therefore ruined as it will refuse to hold full charge again.

You CAN keep electronics in good nick for years and years....It does require regular maintenance though.

Ignorance is bliss until that expensive piece of high tech kit wont ping and get you found.

 

[duncan99210]

In answer to your thoughts on battery life, these are lithium primary batteries (ie not rechargeable). The chemistry of these batteries is exceptionally stable and is the reason behind the long shelf lives quoted for them. The original 5 year life wasn’t based on batteries failing at the 5 year point but was because, at that moment, the research had only been going on for 5 years or so... As time has passed and manufacturers have been able to continue looking at the life span of the batteries, they’ve increased the life of the battery packs inside the beacons.
Comparing how long your car battery lasts without charge has little validity. It is a secondary battery (ie rechargeable) and it uses lead acid chemistry with a know self discharge rate.
Indeed, most of the reason for replacing beacon batteries isn’t due to their losing capacity over time but due to the current consumed conducting the monthly and 6 monthly checks. As I said in post #19, a major design characteristic of the beacons is their ability to withstand benign neglect, otherwise the manufacturers would be directing you to return them to an authorised service agent for an (expensive) annual service.

 

[Daydream believer]

My guess is there's nowt but a bunch of watch batteries stuck together and closed in a sealed unit. Non rechargeable, And battery life is not guaranteed.

It would not surprise me if you hve an onboard GPS & possibly, like many had it for several years. These have non rechargeable batteries & no one seems to question them.

My PLB has a test function. That should be sufficient. In the same way as if your GPS suddenly stops recording routes & waypoints that you had recorded at the end of last season

If buying a new PLB check that it floats. i bought an Ocean one & have found that it does not. If i am weak & let it go the aerial will sink below the water & it will be useless. I can buy a flotation collar but it may still float aerial down. Also it will be bulky & not fit in my Spinnlock holder with my miniflares.

 

[MystyBlue2]

It would not surprise me if you hve an onboard GPS & possibly, like many had it for several years. These have non rechargeable batteries & no one seems to question them.

My PLB has a test function. That should be sufficient. In the same way as if your GPS suddenly stops recording routes & waypoints that you had recorded at the end of last season

If buying a new PLB check that it floats. i bought an Ocean one & have found that it does not. If i am weak & let it go the aerial will sink below the water & it will be useless. I can buy a flotation collar but it may still float aerial down. Also it will be bulky & not fit in my Spinnlock holder with my miniflares.

Yeah i do have a GPS but i also have a android Navionics backup on a fully charged mobile fone, As do my passengers, Say they ALL fail...i have a NON electronic compass.

At the end of the day mariners have sailed the seas for 1000's of years with no expensive wizardry at all!

Just using the stars, Sun, Moon And the trusted compass!

It would be pretty impossible for me to loose all way of navigation devices all at once.

I however, (This is all personal opinion by the way im not saying im right or wrong we all make our own decisions), Would not want to rely on an electronical device to save my life that had been sat dormant in a locker for the past 6 years or so.

 

[Never Grumble]

I however, (This is all personal opinion by the way im not saying im right or wrong we all make our own decisions), Would not want to rely on an electronical device to save my life that had been sat dormant in a locker for the past 6 years or so.

I'd rather have a 6 year old electronic device than no device at all. After all successfully undertaking the manufacturers battery etc routine tests means there is a very high probability that it will work.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yeah i do have a GPS but i also have a android Navionics backup on a fully charged mobile fone, As do my passengers, Say they ALL fail...i have a NON electronic compass.

At the end of the day mariners have sailed the seas for 1000's of years with no expensive wizardry at all!

Just using the stars, Sun, Moon And the trusted compass!

It would be pretty impossible for me to loose all way of navigation devices all at once.

I however, (This is all personal opinion by the way im not saying im right or wrong we all make our own decisions), Would not want to rely on an electronical device to save my life that had been sat dormant in a locker for the past 6 years or so.

I was not suggesting the pros & cons of GPS. Only making the point & an example, that batteries do work in electronic gear un-noticed for a long time, so the technology is not actually new & no longer rocket science. The plb has facility for testing as regularly as one thinks fit, ( recommended monthly I think) so it need not sit entirely "dormant" as one suggests.

 

[MystyBlue2]

But just because it has 0.0001v to "test" dont mean it has full power to transmit pings continuously for 48hrs like it claims. It might only have enough power to do a "test".

That test button would lull folk into a false sense of security in thinking its fully working when infact it might only have enough power for 10 mins of operation.

Its horses for courses i suppose, thats just my opinion.

 

[Never Grumble]

But just because it has 0.0001v to "test" dont mean it has full power to transmit pings continuously for 48hrs like it claims. It might only have enough power to do a "test".

That test button would lull folk into a false sense of security in thinking its fully working when infact it might only have enough power for 10 mins of operation.

Its horses for courses i suppose, thats just my opinion.

Thats not what Ocean Signal advise
The limitation on the number of tests a year is to ensure that the battery will still have its full operational life at the expiry date of the battery.

 

[Boathook]

As far as I'm aware (speaking to local Chandlery) they have a battery life of 3years but its best to have them serviced and checked "annually" to keep them in good working order.

Last thing you want to do is need to use it after 2 years of it sitting idle in a locker somewhere on the boat subjected to cold temperatures only to find the batteries have discharged themselves and are now rendered useless when you actually need it.

Maybe him trying to entice me to spend even more money but logically thinking Look at a car batteries over the winter if they dont get used or charged, head torch batteries, Handheld VHF batteries etc. If they aren't periodically charged/discharged it will ruin the battery and break the whole unit.

Unfortunately you cant just pick up a spare PLB battery off the shelf and carry a few spares onboard.

Unless it was annually checked i honestly wouldnt want to trust it to save my life after 2 years of discharging. (As all batteries self discharge over time) But thats just MHO and from the info from my local rip of merchant.

7 years and the box plus the beacon both say battery OK until September 2022.

 

[ip485]

My last batch are now seven years old and still work fine. (I dont use them, but have kept them to see how they do).

I think this has everything to do with your assessment of the risk of going overboard of course. I think there is some lack of perception that once someone has gone over board, especially at night and in weather, just how hard it is to find them. Even in the day perhaps with poor viz. or a good sea running it will prove a very tought job.

If you are confident you can keep everyone on the boat then they are more of a luxury. I dont say this flippantly. Probably keeping people on the boat has a lot to do with how strick you are about using safety harnesses, the type of weather you sail in, how much foredeck work your boat involves etc.

Of course we should all strive to keep people in the boat, but my point is that depending on how you go about this it must effect the level of risk. I am also not suggesting these devices should in any way make us more relaxed about keeping people on board, simply observing that the risk of going overboard in an offshore racing yact, is inevitably greater than in a large centre cockpit yacht with everything being capable of being operated from the cockpit.

 

[Daydream believer]

I was once taken ill & could not get below. Being single handed I could get injured . So as I always wear a LJ with the PLB attached, it is not beyond the possibility that i could set the PLB off from the cockpit if I could not get below to use the VHF or set the EPIRB off. One does not have to fall in the water first. On a small boat with limited budget it could be a cheaper option to a main EPIRB for the skipper to carry one permanently.

 

[RJJ]

Clearly the battery tests are designed to tell you there's enough to last the specified time. In practice if they're designed to last 24 hours or whatever, on a totally fresh battery they should last much more. By year 5 and after a few tests, if it's still testing OK it's maybe down to 24 hours only. The test should indicate the designed duration in-use is confidently availale - or not.

If you are confident you can keep everyone on the boat then they are more of a luxury. I dont say this flippantly. Probably keeping people on the boat has a lot to do with how strick you are about using safety harnesses, the type of weather you sail in, how much foredeck work your boat involves etc.

That's kind of my point. I'm incredibly anal about harnesses and clipping on, and about people not leaving the cockpit unacommpanied, and holding on / bum-shuffling, and using "local" strong points rather than the jackstays while you're actually working.

Also for what it's worth I spend a lot of time sailing with relatively inexperienced people. My observation is they are more diligent about their personal safety (once instructed) than some very experienced racing folk who want to jump around as though it's a day out in the Solent and there's a rush to rig the spinnaker.

 

[V1701]

I always have a PLB but I sail solo, the options for boats with more crew that enable the boat to know the position of the MOB could be a better option or be used in addition to having PLBs. I figure if I'm sailing solo and go overboard with a PLB there's a chance I'll survive whereas if I go overboard and don't have a PLB I'm dead. My personal choice is that I'd prefer to go overboard with a PLB than be dragged along by the boat so I don't clip on unless I can be sure that I'm not going to go overboard but that's a whole other discussion...

 

[William_H]

Regarding battery life and technology. Some old EPIRB used the CR123A battery. This is the kind of chemistry/technology we are talking about. Lithium non rechargeable very long shelf life. Check it out. ol'will

 

[LadyInBed]

For how often im out, Conditions i go out in and the distance from shore i go, I find them yet another massive cost for something i may never use.
Me personally i have not got that type of spare cash falling from my rear end so i looked at other safety gear instead

You could just use a clip on life line which will stop you going overboard in the first place, only a few quid and doesn't time expire this side of twenty plus years.

 

[SimonKNZ]

Well maybe ive been mislead BUT unless the internals of these PLB batteries are brand new tech and made of a special substance that wont discharge over time or temp changes then i would still probs get them seen too annually.

I'm intrigued by what you mean by "get them seen to"? All of the EPIRBs and PLBs I've seen have absolutely no maintenance you can do other than pressing the self-test button. A battery change involves a seal change, and is often more than the cost of a new unit, or so close as to not be worth it. I think you're being taken for a ride if a dealer wants to charge you an annual servicing fee

 

[Daydream believer]

You could just use a clip on life line which will stop you going overboard in the first place, only a few quid and doesn't time expire this side of twenty plus years.

I doubt that is true for 90% of typical yachts

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm intrigued by what you mean by "get them seen to"? All of the EPIRBs and PLBs I've seen have absolutely no maintenance you can do other than pressing the self-test button. A battery change involves a seal change, and is often more than the cost of a new unit, or so close as to not be worth it. I think you're being taken for a ride if a dealer wants to charge you an annual servicing fee

The service is a bit more than just a seal & battery change as outlined in the link below. . But i do agree with your comment about being taken for a ride over annual servicing
Servicing
I think the reason that one might opt for a new EPIRB is that costs have fallen, performance has improved- ie mine now has GPS function whereas the first one did not. It is more compact. Service interval is extended. My first one was 3 years , now it is 7. Compared to the £ 290 service cost ( incs postage etc) one tends to think that after the first service a new one could be a better option. Sartech offered me a discount to scrap the old one. I did not send it back but sent a picture of it in pieces . It is quite a complicated procedure to get it apart. Having seen it I would not attempt to change the battery myself.

 

[SimonKNZ]

You could just use a clip on life line which will stop you going overboard in the first place, only a few quid and doesn't time expire this side of twenty plus years.

What a great idea! This would also completely remove the need for lifejackets. I'm amazed nobody has thought of it before

 

[Daydream believer]

What a great idea! This would also completely remove the need for lifejackets. I'm amazed nobody has thought of it before

I forsee a problem with that---I clip my harness line to my LJ, as I do not have a dedicated harness