keithandre
Active Member
Re: being disrespectful of my 3 cylinder organ grinder
I have two 4107's in a 26ft, and they use 3/4 of a gallon a hour each.
I have two 4107's in a 26ft, and they use 3/4 of a gallon a hour each.
G
Guest
Guest
Ford Majors ...
We had Fordson Dexta- went to SAfrica for Groundnuts schene !!
Fordson Major - right old dog - went to Africa as well !!
Then we used Ford 4000 tractors ..... boy did they need a lot of Easystart in winter !!!! One guy used to light a fire under one of them !!
Never liked MF - we tried one but opped for the Ford ....
We had Fordson Dexta- went to SAfrica for Groundnuts schene !!
Fordson Major - right old dog - went to Africa as well !!
Then we used Ford 4000 tractors ..... boy did they need a lot of Easystart in winter !!!! One guy used to light a fire under one of them !!
Never liked MF - we tried one but opped for the Ford ....
G
Guest
Guest
black and white ...
Please correct me if I'm wrong ... as I'm a fuel man not an engine man !!
Black is when too much fuel goes in and engine doesn't burn it ... it just basically ashes and soots up with it.
White is too much air and therefore insufficient fuel getting fed.
Blue is the old lub-oil getting burnt as well ...
Yes ??
Please correct me if I'm wrong ... as I'm a fuel man not an engine man !!
Black is when too much fuel goes in and engine doesn't burn it ... it just basically ashes and soots up with it.
White is too much air and therefore insufficient fuel getting fed.
Blue is the old lub-oil getting burnt as well ...
Yes ??
LeytonC
Well-Known Member
Re: 4108 at 0.75 per hr ????
If i was you mate, i would take a couple of gerry cans with you - just in case!!
cos 70l is like a thimble full
(i have 2 * 185 litre tanks in my 26 footer (but no sails))
If i was you mate, i would take a couple of gerry cans with you - just in case!!
cos 70l is like a thimble full
(i have 2 * 185 litre tanks in my 26 footer (but no sails))
G
Guest
Guest
Estimated 70 lt .....
+ I have a 20 ltr plastic drum ... so I thinks that wsill have to be filled as well ...
Bet I get back from Cherbourg with drum still full !!! and a ticking off from Frenchies for not using their gunge !!
+ I have a 20 ltr plastic drum ... so I thinks that wsill have to be filled as well ...
Bet I get back from Cherbourg with drum still full !!! and a ticking off from Frenchies for not using their gunge !!
stevebirch2002
Well-Known Member
Re: Cliff .... what engine have you ??
But Nigel, you never use half-throttle ! I thought SA was a water sking boat! Last time you were doing nearly 9 kts with a wake like a submarine just surfacing. Get ready to take out a mortgage on the fuel bill!! Sure I saw something not too long ago about consumption per HP or per 10HP (Seem to remember it was something like 1 litre per hour per 10HP, may be wrong but it rings a bell).
But Nigel, you never use half-throttle ! I thought SA was a water sking boat! Last time you were doing nearly 9 kts with a wake like a submarine just surfacing. Get ready to take out a mortgage on the fuel bill!! Sure I saw something not too long ago about consumption per HP or per 10HP (Seem to remember it was something like 1 litre per hour per 10HP, may be wrong but it rings a bell).
LeytonC
Well-Known Member
Re: Estimated 70 lt .....
Bet you will be fine - but it sounds *to* close me not to take spare fuel, not sure what your insurance company would say about a random plastic 20 litre drum of fuel on board - i know diesel is not like petrol (not trying to teach grandma to suck eggs there) but they might not be pleased... dont want to sound a kill joy, but be careful, insurance companies only need a single excuse not to pay up...
Bet you will be fine - but it sounds *to* close me not to take spare fuel, not sure what your insurance company would say about a random plastic 20 litre drum of fuel on board - i know diesel is not like petrol (not trying to teach grandma to suck eggs there) but they might not be pleased... dont want to sound a kill joy, but be careful, insurance companies only need a single excuse not to pay up...
G
Guest
Guest
Insurance Co....
I know full well what they can get up to .... My Main biz is Marine Inspection and Loss Control / Investigation comes up ... OK its mainly Commercial Shipping - but personally I do cover odd Yachting jobs ..
The drum will most likely be strapped to aft rail in stern 1/4 ....
Oh - Steve .... I DO run at 1/2 throttle ... in fact often a lot less than that - especially when in company with Centaurs and Vegas !!!! Poor buggers can't keep up !!
I know full well what they can get up to .... My Main biz is Marine Inspection and Loss Control / Investigation comes up ... OK its mainly Commercial Shipping - but personally I do cover odd Yachting jobs ..
The drum will most likely be strapped to aft rail in stern 1/4 ....
Oh - Steve .... I DO run at 1/2 throttle ... in fact often a lot less than that - especially when in company with Centaurs and Vegas !!!! Poor buggers can't keep up !!
cliff
Well-Known Member
Re: Cliff .... what engine have you ??
Friend's boat, Fastnet 34, Perkins 4108 anywhere between 2~3 hours per gallon at 6+kts which is on par with my Bukh 24hp consumption pushing a Sadler 34 - makes me sick.............and yes I do have a clean bum and have had the pump and injectors overhauled last year.
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
Friend's boat, Fastnet 34, Perkins 4108 anywhere between 2~3 hours per gallon at 6+kts which is on par with my Bukh 24hp consumption pushing a Sadler 34 - makes me sick.............and yes I do have a clean bum and have had the pump and injectors overhauled last year.
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G
Guest
Guest
Re: Cliff .... what engine have you ??
Thats not bad eh .... Perk 4108 at mid 40's HP ... 2-3 hrs per gallon .... no wonder Volvo gave up and bought in Perkins engines !!
I still reckon mine cuts about 2 - 2.5 ltrs an hour ... and that I reckon is when pushing it at about 60% throttle ... and about 5 - 6 kts ......
Well - I seem to be destined to have a Drum passenger in cockpit corner .... unless of course there's a bit of wind to shove her along !!
Thats not bad eh .... Perk 4108 at mid 40's HP ... 2-3 hrs per gallon .... no wonder Volvo gave up and bought in Perkins engines !!
I still reckon mine cuts about 2 - 2.5 ltrs an hour ... and that I reckon is when pushing it at about 60% throttle ... and about 5 - 6 kts ......
Well - I seem to be destined to have a Drum passenger in cockpit corner .... unless of course there's a bit of wind to shove her along !!
cliff
Well-Known Member
Re: Cliff .... what engine have you ??
[ QUOTE ]
Thats not bad eh .... Perk 4108 at mid 40's HP ... 2-3 hrs per gallon .... no wonder Volvo gave up and bought in Perkins engines !!
I still reckon mine cuts about 2 - 2.5 ltrs an hour ... and that I reckon is when pushing it at about 60% throttle ... and about 5 - 6 kts ......
[/ QUOTE ]For a second hand engine in dubious condition (by your own admission) I would not be complaining. Infact I don't think there can be much wrong with your engine, 2 hours to the gallon @ 60% aint bad.
A lot depends on hull condition and shape, prop/gbox/engine combo and tide conditions so I think you are doing well.
--------------------
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
[ QUOTE ]
Thats not bad eh .... Perk 4108 at mid 40's HP ... 2-3 hrs per gallon .... no wonder Volvo gave up and bought in Perkins engines !!
I still reckon mine cuts about 2 - 2.5 ltrs an hour ... and that I reckon is when pushing it at about 60% throttle ... and about 5 - 6 kts ......
[/ QUOTE ]For a second hand engine in dubious condition (by your own admission) I would not be complaining. Infact I don't think there can be much wrong with your engine, 2 hours to the gallon @ 60% aint bad.
A lot depends on hull condition and shape, prop/gbox/engine combo and tide conditions so I think you are doing well.
--------------------
LeytonC
Well-Known Member
Re: Cliff .... what engine have you ??
did not know you did Marine Inspection and Loss, thought you only did fuel stuff and things.
I have never seen 3 gallons per hour from my 4108's might have seen 1.75 per engine once, but not after i had top end rebuilds on both - but yes, i think a drum will be required!!! unless the wind will do you any favors...
did not know you did Marine Inspection and Loss, thought you only did fuel stuff and things.
I have never seen 3 gallons per hour from my 4108's might have seen 1.75 per engine once, but not after i had top end rebuilds on both - but yes, i think a drum will be required!!! unless the wind will do you any favors...
graham
Well-Known Member
Re: Small engines and clean bums ...
[ QUOTE ]
The ONLY way to be sure is drain the tank, and put a measured amount in and run until it stops
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to strongly disagree with that advise supermalc.
Far better to fill to the brim run at desired speed for one hour then measure amount needed to top up.
Best never to allow a diesel to run out completely .
[ QUOTE ]
The ONLY way to be sure is drain the tank, and put a measured amount in and run until it stops
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to strongly disagree with that advise supermalc.
Far better to fill to the brim run at desired speed for one hour then measure amount needed to top up.
Best never to allow a diesel to run out completely .
sailorman
Well-Known Member
is it a 3>1 box
G
Guest
Guest
Dubious engine ...
Yep - I admit I expected to have a smoky lump !!
Engineer who fitted it said ... tired lazy starter ... probably rings gummed up ... Do you want me to strip and check ?
Nope says I ... its 250 quid and for that I don't expect much ... and spending out more money is not my idea ...
OK Nigel - suggest you give it a bloody good thrashing as often as you can - probably find that she'll ease up ... hopefully.
Later after he bench run it to check it still worked ... he was the one who took it out of the original boat years before ! .... he said yep its still lazy - but runs well.
So it was fitted and his son demo'd it .... Now here where it got interesting. The old Perkins has a dieserl fed glow-plug in the air-intake. He connected a 12v feed and it glowed, but no diesel connected ... but it still started the engine from cold !! She blew a bit of white smoke as most do, then settled to a clean chuff chuff .....
I have since tapped into the fuel return line for feed to the cold start ... and she is a good-un. And yes she has improved with time and I expect her to get better !!
I was indeed VERY lucky ......... Perkins 4107 at about 42HP ... £250 !!
9.8 kts at full throttle .... about 5 - 6 kts at 60% ....
Anyone want an old siezed 4-99 ??? it still may be in a shed somewhere ??
Yep - I admit I expected to have a smoky lump !!
Engineer who fitted it said ... tired lazy starter ... probably rings gummed up ... Do you want me to strip and check ?
Nope says I ... its 250 quid and for that I don't expect much ... and spending out more money is not my idea ...
OK Nigel - suggest you give it a bloody good thrashing as often as you can - probably find that she'll ease up ... hopefully.
Later after he bench run it to check it still worked ... he was the one who took it out of the original boat years before ! .... he said yep its still lazy - but runs well.
So it was fitted and his son demo'd it .... Now here where it got interesting. The old Perkins has a dieserl fed glow-plug in the air-intake. He connected a 12v feed and it glowed, but no diesel connected ... but it still started the engine from cold !! She blew a bit of white smoke as most do, then settled to a clean chuff chuff .....
I have since tapped into the fuel return line for feed to the cold start ... and she is a good-un. And yes she has improved with time and I expect her to get better !!
I was indeed VERY lucky ......... Perkins 4107 at about 42HP ... £250 !!
9.8 kts at full throttle .... about 5 - 6 kts at 60% ....
Anyone want an old siezed 4-99 ??? it still may be in a shed somewhere ??
G
Guest
Guest
Check my web-sites on signature ...
Particularly the QQBaltic one ....
I also have a sub-biz of UK Yacht Surveying that is suspended at moment due to Baltic commitments ..... covered losses due to grounding, capsize, fire etc.
I do not post too much on these as they are subject to much technicality etc. ..... better to hold back and answer where suitable etc.
Why do you ask ??
Oh and the drum will be strapped in place as a spare source ...
Particularly the QQBaltic one ....
I also have a sub-biz of UK Yacht Surveying that is suspended at moment due to Baltic commitments ..... covered losses due to grounding, capsize, fire etc.
I do not post too much on these as they are subject to much technicality etc. ..... better to hold back and answer where suitable etc.
Why do you ask ??
Oh and the drum will be strapped in place as a spare source ...
supermalc
Well-Known Member
Re: Small engines and clean bums ...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ONLY way to be sure is drain the tank, and put a measured amount in and run until it stops
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to strongly disagree with that advise supermalc.
Far better to fill to the brim run at desired speed for one hour then measure amount needed to top up.
Best never to allow a diesel to run out completely .
[/ QUOTE ]
Graham, note I did not say to run the engine to drain the tank, and yes, probably not a good idea to run until the fuel runs out with some diesels. Despite being an Agricultural Engineer by trade, I fell into a trap in my 30s. Was using an International Drot (tracked loader with universal bucket) when I ran out of fuel. After bleeding and restarting it was down on power. Thinking I'd got some dirt in the pump, the injection specialists were called in. Turned out the engine would not self bleed, even when started, and several more attempts were required. Something to do with multi fuel filters, due to them being designed to work in very dusty conditions.
Having my YSE12 with a gravity fed system means I have none of this trouble. Almost self bleeds, which is a good job, considering air enters through the worn govenor into the pump when not running.
I should not have assumed that emptying the tank would naturally mean cleaning it, and maybe replacing the fuel filter before attempting the experiment. Could equally be done full of course, only more difficult to measure the amount.
There is still no substitute for experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ONLY way to be sure is drain the tank, and put a measured amount in and run until it stops
[/ QUOTE ]
Have to strongly disagree with that advise supermalc.
Far better to fill to the brim run at desired speed for one hour then measure amount needed to top up.
Best never to allow a diesel to run out completely .
[/ QUOTE ]
Graham, note I did not say to run the engine to drain the tank, and yes, probably not a good idea to run until the fuel runs out with some diesels. Despite being an Agricultural Engineer by trade, I fell into a trap in my 30s. Was using an International Drot (tracked loader with universal bucket) when I ran out of fuel. After bleeding and restarting it was down on power. Thinking I'd got some dirt in the pump, the injection specialists were called in. Turned out the engine would not self bleed, even when started, and several more attempts were required. Something to do with multi fuel filters, due to them being designed to work in very dusty conditions.
Having my YSE12 with a gravity fed system means I have none of this trouble. Almost self bleeds, which is a good job, considering air enters through the worn govenor into the pump when not running.
I should not have assumed that emptying the tank would naturally mean cleaning it, and maybe replacing the fuel filter before attempting the experiment. Could equally be done full of course, only more difficult to measure the amount.
There is still no substitute for experience.
supermalc
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
is it a 3>1 box
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean my YSE12? No 2>1
I'm at Bardney Lock near Lincoln......you're welcome to come and see for yourself. All seem to agree my boat goes very well, and the gearing is about right.
This old fashioned engine, half a 1930s designed twin, or so I'm told has masses of torgue, and drives a heavy flywheel, as well as 2 huge clutches in the gearbox, so the 12hp actually relates to far more, although much less efficiency of course.
Last year, while overgeared (overpropped) I went along a heavily weeded river, and made it. Following narrowboats turned back.
is it a 3>1 box
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean my YSE12? No 2>1
I'm at Bardney Lock near Lincoln......you're welcome to come and see for yourself. All seem to agree my boat goes very well, and the gearing is about right.
This old fashioned engine, half a 1930s designed twin, or so I'm told has masses of torgue, and drives a heavy flywheel, as well as 2 huge clutches in the gearbox, so the 12hp actually relates to far more, although much less efficiency of course.
Last year, while overgeared (overpropped) I went along a heavily weeded river, and made it. Following narrowboats turned back.
brianhumber
Well-Known Member
Re: black and white ...
re White - think of long gone school days waiting for the old second hand worn out bus to be started on a frosty morn.
Loads of white smoke tinged with blue
White was from vaporised fuel that had not burnt or started to burn because the engine was cold and the compression low due to age and the blue was a bit of oil, again the engine was old and oil was being carried past worn rings made worse by the cold engine.
My older diesels at work have glazing of bores due to previous off load running over the years - when they start we disappear in a cloud of blue smoke- soon clears as they take up the load and warm up.
Bri
ps hope to see you on the Cherbourg jolly but if its a hard beat to windward from Chi in a strong SW I may wimp out and bear off to sniff the Benidictine in Fecamp
re White - think of long gone school days waiting for the old second hand worn out bus to be started on a frosty morn.
Loads of white smoke tinged with blue
White was from vaporised fuel that had not burnt or started to burn because the engine was cold and the compression low due to age and the blue was a bit of oil, again the engine was old and oil was being carried past worn rings made worse by the cold engine.
My older diesels at work have glazing of bores due to previous off load running over the years - when they start we disappear in a cloud of blue smoke- soon clears as they take up the load and warm up.
Bri
ps hope to see you on the Cherbourg jolly but if its a hard beat to windward from Chi in a strong SW I may wimp out and bear off to sniff the Benidictine in Fecamp
