Perkins 4-107 starter motor burnt out ...

Refueler

Refueler

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I have a Perkins 4-107 with Raw Water cooling and the starter motor is burnt out ... bendix got stuck in flywheel when I hit starter ... lots of smelly smoke and that was it.

The boat is still in the water and I cannot start the engine to run Anti-Freeze through it. Starter motor is in the shop being checked. The river is starting to freeze and I'm concerned that my engine is going to ice up and might damage the block.

The exhaust is lower than the head ... so I'm wondering if I can blow air through to clear out the water ??

Normally I close sea cock, open up the filter box and then pour AF in while engine is running ... there's no thermostat in it - so it gets pushed through even when engine is cold. But of course now I cannot do that ...

Suggestions ??????
 
penberth3 said:
You need a new starter anyway - so why not change it now?
Click to expand...

I live in Latvia !! And its an old 1950's engine ... even eBay its hard to find the M45G starter.

Its in the shop and they've quoted 150euros to rewire, clean and replace small bendix spring. I should get it back tomorrow or next day ...

I will still see if there's a low point to drain engine ...
 
Drain what you can.
Connect a hose to the engine inlet, other end to a funnel high up.
Connect another hose to the outlet.
Pour neat anti freeze into the funnel.
 
lw395 said:
Drain what you can.
Connect a hose to the engine inlet, other end to a funnel high up.
Connect another hose to the outlet.
Pour neat anti freeze into the funnel.
Click to expand...

I normally pour it into the opened seacock when seavalve is closed .... let pump run it round when engine running. I'm concerned that because the 'water' exits to the exhaust ... that doing without engine running - I may risk getting AF back via valve into a cylinder. With engine running - the exhaust gases basically prevent any fluid getting in cylinder.
 
Refueler said:
I normally pour it into the opened seacock when seavalve is closed .... let pump run it round when engine running. I'm concerned that because the 'water' exits to the exhaust ... that doing without engine running - I may risk getting AF back via valve into a cylinder. With engine running - the exhaust gases basically prevent any fluid getting in cylinder.
Click to expand...

If you disconnect the pipe at the exhaust injection point there is no chance of water flowing back into the cylinder.

If you wish to put antifreeze in the exhaust just port some in at the injection point making sure you don't put too much.
 
Rogershaw said:
If you disconnect the pipe at the exhaust injection point there is no chance of water flowing back into the cylinder.

If you wish to put antifreeze in the exhaust just port some in at the injection point making sure you don't put too much.
Click to expand...

If I'm winterising, I'd get the exhaust dry and plugged, don't want the engine exposed to damp from the exhaust.
May not be practical on every boat, so maybe take the exhaust hose off the elbow and plug it, after making usre thewaterlock has anti freeze in it.
A case of know your boat and do what works? Ours we can get the whole exhaust dry and clean around it by undo about 6 screws. YMMV.
 
Just to be clear ...

My 4-107 is installed with outside water level about 1/4 way up the block. There is no heat exchanger, its raw water cooled. There is no water lock in the exhaust ... which is a straight pipe from engine to transom. The manifold has an Z pipe that drops the exhaust pipe down to just above the gearbox to sit under the cockpit floor. Nothing fancy ... just simple.

I have loosened the water pipe that is just below head gasket on front of engine ... no water.
I have removed the face plate of the water pump below that ... no water
I have closed seacock and opened the inlet filter and about 1/2ltr water drained down from engine.

I now have a 500W heater sitting by the engine (I've removed as much of the engine box as I can) hoping this will keep her from freezing while I wait for the starter motor.
I'm optimistic as the bilges are still fluid .. while outside is thin ice.
 
Refueler said:
Just to be clear ...

My 4-107 is installed with outside water level about 1/4 way up the block. There is no heat exchanger, its raw water cooled. There is no water lock in the exhaust ... which is a straight pipe from engine to transom. The manifold has an Z pipe that drops the exhaust pipe down to just above the gearbox to sit under the cockpit floor. Nothing fancy ... just simple.

I have loosened the water pipe that is just below head gasket on front of engine ... no water.
I have removed the face plate of the water pump below that ... no water
I have closed seacock and opened the inlet filter and about 1/2ltr water drained down from engine.

I now have a 500W heater sitting by the engine (I've removed as much of the engine box as I can) hoping this will keep her from freezing while I wait for the starter motor.
I'm optimistic as the bilges are still fluid .. while outside is thin ice.
Click to expand...
Blast from the past! Hows life?
 
Its been quite some time since last here.

I have to admit that I was not impressed by the forum back then - it was taking directions and styles of posts that I did not appreciate.

I'm older ... and thought why not look in again. Yes - I chose to pose a question to help sort my problem ... a good excuse to 'pop up' ...

I was in the background with many issues though - passing on Fuel / Oil related info to various bodies ... RYA and CA etc. So I was not completely out of picture. That has basically played itself out now that people have got used to the changed specs.

Sadly yachting has been a bit quiet for me ... but I did manage to sort out one of my ex-soviet motorboats and that has provided excellent time on the river ...

IMG-20180506-WA0001.jpg
 
Just picked up starter ... guy tested it in front of me ...

Repairs :

1. Part rewind due shorted section
2. New shaft bush where old corroded
3. Shaft spiral spline rebuilt at bendix end where cracked, new bush and cleaned up
4. Corrosion internally cleaned out and insulation lacquer applied.

150 euros cash.

Now just have to brave the cold and squeeze into the engine space to refit. Before I press the start button ... I must turn engine by hand as she has a habit of 'locking up' when not run. Only needs a spanner on the crank pulley and turn her slowly one turn ..
 
My old Lister used to do that. I think it's due to condensation in the cylinders. Try an old acrylic blanket over the engine when you leave it in the cold - it might help the starter motor, too. Good luck when you turn the key!
 
If I use the boat regularly ... no problem ... but if I leave her for a few weeks ... best to give that engine a turn by spanner just to be sure.

Have to brave the cold ... first to replace the C clips that have broken on the engine control lever ... then to turn engine ... fit starter and hit that button !!
 
I don't believe it ....

I turn over engine .... fit starter .... hit button ..... ZNNNNNNN as the starter spins but doesn't engage ... batterys low even though has had trickle charge for ages to keep it alive ...

Open up battery box and the smell of acid is strong ... top of battery has burst its safety plate and battery box has about 1 litre battery acid fluid slopping about in bottom ....

Lucky plate clipped back in place and I could lift it out. Now I have to find way to empty the box !! My idea is to pour in about 4 - 5 litres of water and then siphon out ... fill again with water ... siphon again and wipe out.
Now I have to find a b****y battery !!
 
OK .... think I sorted. Luckily my battery box is sealed with epoxy paint so all fluid was contained. Estimate about 1 ltr.. maybe 1.25 ltr.

I poured in 5 litres fresh water and stirred it round making sure I poured over the cables and battery connectors ... the webbing strap ...

Using my Pela 6000 (I use this for far more than just sucking out old oil !!) .... I siphoned out the box. I then poured another 5 litres of fresh water into the box making sure I poured over connectors / strap again ... swilled round .... siphoned out.

Hopefully that should do the trick.

Now I need to find a 2nd hand battery to start the engine and flush the AF round. The town used to have 4 or 5 places that sold good 2nd hand batterys - now cannot find any !! I don't want to buy new and then find after winter thats 'blown' as well ...
 
Refueler said:
IOpen up battery box and the smell of acid is strong ... top of battery has burst its safety plate and battery box has about 1 litre battery acid fluid slopping about in bottom ....
Click to expand...

Apart from physical damage caused by impact, the only time that I have seen anything like that is with battery that has a vent to atmosphere and that vent has been blocked. Eventually the battery casing will split. :(

Flushing with water should be fine but you could always flush with a dilute alkali solution just to be on the safe side. Washing soda/sodium carbonate solution would be an obvious choice.

Richard
 
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