Perch and Light Kyles of Bute

[markhomer]

Other thread here brings to mind the thought , Is it not time someone put a perch and praps even a light on the Wood Farm Rock at Burnt Isles in the Kyles of bute , within the last 18 months this rock has claimed more than its fair share of insurance losses , It is and has been marked by a bouy for ever which does move about a fair bit .

Surely the cost of putting up a perch wouldnt be that much and possibly something that could be sponsored by insurance companies (in their own interests ) . Praps even a marine company could do it and name it for a spot of advertising ???

folks may argue to their hearts contents of how their own prowess has prevented them hitting it and others shouldnt , but they do and will continue so. **** happens

Just a thought , seems such a waste of all our money , yup all insurance premiums overall are effected by claim levels , individuals more so .

 

[JumbleDuck]

Other thread here brings to mind the thought , Is it not time someone put a perch and praps even a light on the Wood Farm Rock at Burnt Isles in the Kyles of bute , within the last 18 months this rock has claimed more than its fair share of insurance losses , It is and has been marked by a bouy for ever which does move about a fair bit .

The buoy is still a pretty good clue though, isn't it?

 

[markhomer]

obviously !. not good enough though at times , as has been proven.

 

[Al Dickson]

I too have heard of problems/ damage why only recently i'm not sure - unless more folk just relying on GPS accuracy?

Perhaps it's not been put back in exactly the same place after a service or the new chain is a bit long - but its well noted in the pilot that it moves about quite a lot.

WFR extends significantly to the SE of where the buoy is supposed to be so in the wrong conditions it could be a fair distance from the other end. There isn't huge amounts of searoom either side if you draw 2m+ it can be a tricky one to judge.

A perch at either end would be much better solution imho

 

[JumbleDuck]

obviously !. not good enough though at times , as has been proven.

But how often? I haven't read of anyone sinking there, but maybe I'm not reading the right things.

Anyway, if there are lots of people capable of hitting a clearly buoyed rock, how long will the perch last before someone hits that?

 

[markhomer]

Thats stupid !!!! , no no sinkings , yes significant amounts of damage to keels , structural framing etc and the odd bruise or too 10s of 1000 £s , not neccessarily a new thing either , folks been hitting it for years , perhaps though as larger deeper yachts become more common this is having an affect , you (in general not JD ) also can give folks some sympathy that when passing bouys on the correct hand they hit rock .


PS Ive been passing through for over 35 yrs and have been lucky enough so far not to hit anything yet .


as AL dickson points out for larger draft vessels there is not a lot of room , and its is known at certain states of tide bouy can lie in wrong position .

bit of empathy goes a long way , and if damage to boats can be averted all the better too in my eyes .

for those unfamiliar with the area check out

http://www.cyca-online.org.uk/cm/dynamic/Large/11032011142537.pdf

to appreciate the thread .

 

[Bodach na mara]

The buoy is still a pretty good clue though, isn't it?

I remember in the 1950s going through that channel on the steamer service to Tarbert, sometimes on the Loch Fyne but at least once on the larger Saint Columba. I suppose that there must have been a higher than normal tide that day. On my own boat, I have always left both buoys to port when heading north but the chartlet in the link in post #6 shows that there is a risk if you are too close to the south of buoy No 43.

On the only occasion I have gone into Woodfarm Bay to anchor, I was coming from the west and left the buoy to port as usuan then turned to port to enter the bay. I had always thought that the rock lay between the buoy and the nearest point to the north of it. I was informed by the skipper another boat in the bay that I had just gone right over it. Fortunately a combination of high tide and four foot draft kept me from making contact. There has been some discussion between the CYCA and the CPA about this and the CPA maintain that the rock is "correctly marked."

As Mark says, it would be nice if some benefactor erected a perch as well. However, as Jumbleduck says (and the perches in Tarbert can be seen in evidence) there are some folk about who seem to be able to run into anything. A few years ago I was sailing across Rothesay bay and had just turned round Toward buoy to head for Cloch when I heard a loud clang from astern. I looked back to see that the boat that had been following me across the bay had steered a straight course to hit the buoy dead centre.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Thats stupid !!!! , no no sinkings , yes significant amounts of damage to keels , structural framing etc and the odd bruise or too 10s of 1000 £s , not neccessarily a new thing either , folks been hitting it for years , perhaps though as larger deeper yachts become more common this is having an affect , you (in general not JD ) also can give folks some sympathy that when passing bouys on the correct hand they hit rock .

OK, so it's a well-known hazard, it's been charted since 2003 and the CCC says that the buoy is very close to the rock it marks. It's also right next to a clear and well marked channel with no hazards at all. Sorry, but my empathy is strained. Maybe we could rename it Darwin Rock?

 

[JumbleDuck]

As Mark says, it would be nice if some benefactor erected a perch as well. However, as Jumbleduck says (and the perches in Tarbert can be seen in evidence) there are some folk about who seem to be able to run into anything. A few years ago I was sailing across Rothesay bay and had just turned round Toward buoy to head for Cloch when I heard a loud clang from astern. I looked back to see that the boat that had been following me across the bay had steered a straight course to hit the buoy dead centre.

The big naval mooring buoys in Rothesay and Kames Bay used to be real menaces: painted black and unlit. No excuse for whanging one in daylight, though.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

... Toward buoy ....

This is another place that folks run aground far too often, relatively speaking. I always keep well inshore to Bute or up at the Burnt Isles if going round Woodfarm Rock. A colleague sailed a Sigma 41 into it on the Ladies Race. Very expensive damage, cracked the flange off the keel at the front, displaced all the furniture and cracked a load of ribs. Fortunately no one was injured. To be honest I think the 'Clyde is safe' attitude is the rout cause of slack pilotage, which leads to this sort of thing.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

This is another place that folks run aground far too often, relatively speaking. I always keep well inshore to Bute or up at the Burnt Isles if going round Woodfarm Rock. A colleague sailed a Sigma 41 into it on the Ladies Race. Very expensive damage, cracked the flange off the keel at the front, displaced all the furniture and cracked a load of ribs. Fortunately no one was injured. To be honest I think the 'Clyde is safe' attitude is the rout cause of slack pilotage, which leads to this sort of thing.

Toward point is one place where I'm always a bit nervous, and take care to go south of the cardinal buoy. I'm not keen on turning port to head for Cloch too early, either.

Another place where I've heard of people coming to grief is the Tan Spit, west of Millport. My brother tells the story of a motorboat that went north of the Tan Spit buoy (not sure if that's the official designation), and took out his stern-drives. I'm always careful to be south of that one.

The Wood Farm passage was a bit nerve-wracking the first time or two I went through it on my own, and it is one place where I keep an eye on the depth sounder. I only draw 1.5 metres, so I guess I'm less at risk than others, but I have a Clyde induced nervousness at seeing single figures on the depth-sounder! Up there, we tend to regard water as shallow if it's less than 20-30 metres , and my personal rule for tacking in the Kyles of Bute is tack on the ten metre line.

 

[Old Troll]

Having a mooring at Colintraive we pass this way through the "blind sound" regularly without problem. If the rock is causing concern would a cheap and easy solution not be to drop a heavy weight with a wee buoy on top of the rock to identify exact location of said rock. The wee buoy would quickly be known to be on location by all who pass that way. I am agreement with the "Clyde is Safe" comment in that the behaviour/standards of yachts transiting the Kyle Of Bute is very poor. Very few craft keep to starboard side of channel or appear to have heard off any form of collision regulations. As they say in Campbeltown " Gan a, Weys". Power boats also pass with a hellish wash off them.

 

[PeteCooper]

Another place where I've heard of people coming to grief is the Tan Spit, west of Millport. My brother tells the story of a motorboat that went north of the Tan Spit buoy (not sure if that's the official designation), and took out his stern-drives. I'm always careful to be south of that one.

My tale was actually about Ardmaleish Point where the cruiser went South of the Cardinal - but the principle is the same.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Ant Pilot.I have a fin Moody 31 and have found that the depth is nearer 1.7m.The Moody technical info is based on a bare boat so loaded up with fuel,water,chain etc the depth is more.I touched the cill at 1.68m at the Tidemill in suffolk and the gauge is very accurate.According to owners on the MOA this is a known fact.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Wood Farm passage was a bit nerve-wracking the first time or two I went through it on my own, and it is one place where I keep an eye on the depth sounder. I only draw 1.5 metres, so I guess I'm less at risk than others, but I have a Clyde induced nervousness at seeing single figures on the depth-sounder!

I only draw 3'10", so Wood Farm Rock not an issue for me except at near low tide, at which time I, like you, keep a wee eye on the depth sounder. I used to enjoy taking friends sailing up Loch Long and, when they squeaked at how near the shore they appeared to be, point out that we were in 200' of water.

Having a mooring at Colintraive we pass this way through the "blind sound" regularly without problem. If the rock is causing concern would a cheap and easy solution not be to drop a heavy weight with a wee buoy on top of the rock to identify exact location of said rock. The wee buoy would quickly be known to be on location by all who pass that way. I am agreement with the "Clyde is Safe" comment in that the behaviour/standards of yachts transiting the Kyle Of Bute is very poor. Very few craft keep to starboard side of channel or appear to have heard off any form of collision regulations. As they say in Campbeltown " Gan a, Weys". Power boats also pass with a hellish wash off them.

The Kyles are under CPA control, and their guide for leisure craft[1] states that

Kyles of Bute

For the safety of all water users please treat this whole area as a “LOW WASH ZONE”.

BOTH channels between Rhubodach and Buttock Point [...] must be treated as a “NO WASH ZONE”.

In the interests of safety, boatowners should report details of instances of excessive speed causing hazardous wash to Clydeport, HM Coastguard or the Police.​

Although many motorboats are fine, there do seem to be a significant number (yahoos on their way from Kip or Largs to lunch at Portavadie is my guess) who ignore these rules completely. Perhaps we should all be assiduous in reporting them.

[1] http://peelports.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Clydeport_Leisure_Navigation_Guide_4th_Ed_2012.pdf

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Ant Pilot.I have a fin Moody 31 and have found that the depth is nearer 1.7m.The Moody technical info is based on a bare boat so loaded up with fuel,water,chain etc the depth is more.I touched the cill at 1.68m at the Tidemill in suffolk and the gauge is very accurate.According to owners on the MOA this is a known fact.

Thanks for the heads-up! It doesn't much matter where I sail - if I get close enough that I'm worried about 0.2 metres, it's too shallow for me anyway The bottom on the Clyde is usually hard as well - you really don't want to touch it. Around here, I get twitchy at single figures; the only place I expect to see them is in a marina, the Crinan Canal, or a few very rare places like those being discussed, where 5 metres is regarded as shallow If I saw it going much below 5 metres, I'd turn for deeper water.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Having thought about the perch suggestion a little, I think the issue here is really one of pragmatic damage limitation. It seems that, at the moment, a significant number of people are capable of sailing over Wood Farm Rock, despite charts and the buoy. However, since it is about 1.5m under LAT, few people who do that are at significant risk, and with even a small tidal rise boats drawing 2m or more are safe.

Many of those people who are capable of sailing unintentionally over the rock are probably also capable of sailing into a perch, and in that case damage is guaranteed, to both perch and yacht. Adding a perch might therefore reduce the number of incursions but increase the amount of damage caused by them. The only places where perches are really justified, like the CCC ones at Easdale or Ardinamir, are where the hazard is there for so much of the time that the deterrent effect of having a perch doesn't outweigh the damage caused when numpties hit it.

 

[penfold]

I remember in the 1950s going through that channel on the steamer service to Tarbert, sometimes on the Loch Fyne but at least once on the larger Saint Columba. I suppose that there must have been a higher than normal tide that day. On my own boat, I have always left both buoys to port when heading north but the chartlet in the link in post #6 shows that there is a risk if you are too close to the south of buoy No 43.

All the steamers heading up Loch Fyne went through the kyles; I don't know if they slowed down much but certainly passing through was a daily occurance with surprisingly few groundings even with the deeper draught of the turbine steamers.

 

[Uricanejack]

Its a long time since I have been through the kiles. I don't remember it being a particular problem.

If you believe you have a case for a change in the required navigational marks for the area.
Contact the Northern Light House Authority.
If I recall corectly they are the body resposable for navigational marks in Scotland.
You could also fill out the page at the back of weekly notice to mariners. giving your information about a reported depht on the channel or safe water side of the buoy and stae of tide at the time.
I cant recal the limit of clyde ports. if inside harbour limit advise harbour master.
Nothing may change but at least you will have tried .

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you believe you have a case for a change in the required navigational marks for the area.
Contact the Northern Light House Authority.
If I recall corectly they are the body resposable for navigational marks in Scotland.

The existing buoys there are all CPA; it's well inside the port limits.