Peeling the underside of your boat

[Piers]

Has anyone had the underside of their boat peeled and re gelled?

I'd really like to know of any "if only's", "gotchas" or "with hindsight I would have...".

 

[admillington]

I read with regret about all the work you are having done - http://www.playdeau.com/play-deau-and-south-africa/ - do you now need to have Osmotic work done to under the water now?

 

[Piers]

I read with regret about all the work you are having done - http://www.playdeau.com/play-deau-and-south-africa/ - do you now need to have Osmotic work done to under the water now?

The newly identified issue under the waterline isn't osmosis but correction of initial build work. There are many areas of small "pinprick" sized voids 'possibly' from aeration of the gelcoat from manufacture; several areas of larger voids where the gelcoat has separated away leaving the underlying laminate exposed; areas of white filler exposed, which appears to have been used for fairing purposes probably after the hull was released from the mould originally; the original (green) epoxy coatings are beginning to fail and are missing in several areas; and there are small areas of bare laminate, particularly around the keel and near the centreline.

These issues were only found after the hill was blasted to remove 12 years worth of anti-foul. You can imagine my disappointment. The surveyor has advised that treating each issue individually would possibly cost more than a peeling treatment, and that by doing a peeling treatment the hull would be made 'bullet-proof' for at least 10 years.

So no contest. In come the peelers, so to speak, on Weds.

Even though there's no osmosis under the waterline, the treatment will be a full epoxy treatment with West System Epoxy, includes peeling, blasting, steam cleaning and tenting, ready for drying out with infrareds and dehumidifiers. Then, applying saturation coat filling and fairing, one 450 bi-axial cloth followed by six coats of solvent-less epoxy, tie coat and two coats of antifouling to finish.

I'll be adding post to the playdeau.com website over the next few days showing the extent of the problem, together with pics. I'm in South Africa at the moment and will be for the next 2 months or so, so the surveyor and Kim Hollamby are monitoring matters with pics.

The correction works above the waterline are also correction of initial build where the white filler used for fairing purposes was not an epoxy filler, but 'water attractive', causing osmosis blisters on flat surfaces where water has rested. These will be treated in a different way to ensure proper correction.

All work will be monitored by the surveyor for completeness. One really good point is that all the GRP is perfectly sound and dry. It's just the filler that's caused the problem above the waterline.

 

[RogerRat]

Has anyone had the underside of their boat peeled and re gelled?

Hi, I must say I was surprised to see Play Deau out of the water at Shamrock on Friday. It wasn't that long since you were there and being antifouled etc.

Yes, in short my boat was peeled over last winter by one of the yards in Essex at Essex Boat Yard's request. It was treated for osmosis and all the drying, laminating and epoxy gel shielding you've described was carried out. I was given a full break down and report by Nick Barke at EBY as promised. I've just relaunched her on Friday as I needed some trim tab rams replaced and the hull looked perfect.

If you're having all this work done and with FLeming supervision I doubt if there's any reason to worry at all. Your boat is one of the better known ones and Fleming hardly ever get bad publicity. The boat will be better off for it in the long term and when you see her again, she'll look just like new.

Enjoy your trip down south and make the most of the sunshine.

RR

 

[kashurst]

bit of a blow, but whilst having the bottom totally reconditioned have you considered copper coating it too?

 

[Piers]

bit of a blow, but whilst having the bottom totally reconditioned have you considered copper coating it too?

Copper coated? Having read so many posts about the treatment not working, it would be one more potential thing to go wrong. Having found osmosis on the top of Play d'eau, followed by the very recent finding that the underside needs peeling etc, I really don't want to run the risk of anything else likely to fail. Copper was suggested by the surveyor, but we made the decision just to use our favourite, Teamac-D which has worked so well for us for years. I know it's in the application that issues arise with copper coating, but at the moment it would be a step too far as they say.

 

[Piers]

Hi, I must say I was surprised to see Play Deau out of the water at Shamrock on Friday. It wasn't that long since you were there and being antifouled etc.

Yes, in short my boat was peeled over last winter by one of the yards in Essex at Essex Boat Yard's request. It was treated for osmosis and all the drying, laminating and epoxy gel shielding you've described was carried out. I was given a full break down and report by Nick Barke at EBY as promised. I've just relaunched her on Friday as I needed some trim tab rams replaced and the hull looked perfect.

If you're having all this work done and with FLeming supervision I doubt if there's any reason to worry at all. Your boat is one of the better known ones and Fleming hardly ever get bad publicity. The boat will be better off for it in the long term and when you see her again, she'll look just like new.

Enjoy your trip down south and make the most of the sunshine.

RR

Hi RR. Although Play d'eau is in Shamrock, the home of Fleming yachts Europe, the works aren't being supervised by Fleming. The works are being carried out by the very capable GRP Boat Repairs and overseen by my equally capable surveyor, Guy Nicholls (Solent Marine Surveys).

GRP Boat Repairs has worked on many, many large boats and has a good reputation. As on their website, their strap line is 'you won't see the repair'.

 

[admillington]

Hi RR. Although Play d'eau is in Shamrock, the home of Fleming yachts Europe, the works aren't being supervised by Fleming. The works are being carried out by the very capable GRP Boat Repairs and overseen by my equally capable surveyor, Guy Nicholls (Solent Marine Surveys).

GRP Boat Repairs has worked on many, many large boats and has a good reputation. As on their website, their strap line is 'you won't see the repair'.

Are Fleming contributing to any of the costs? - clearly this is a lack of care on the part of the builder and not your renowned maintenance schedule - not like they hadn't already build 128 boats before yours and a large number afterwards.

There are 3 Fleming 55s on our pontoon in Lymington - 2 have never moved in the 3 years I have been there and I have had a good look round and cannot see any bubbles on the superstructure for what is worth - all seem to be around the 2006 - 2009.

 

[volvopaul]

Are Fleming contributing to any of the costs? - clearly this is a lack of care on the part of the builder and not your renowned maintenance schedule - not like they hadn't already build 128 boats before yours and a large number afterwards.

There are 3 Fleming 55s on our pontoon in Lymington - 2 have never moved in the 3 years I have been there and I have had a good look round and cannot see any bubbles on the superstructure for what is worth - all seem to be around the 2006 - 2009.

I'd agree there about a contribution towards your bill, I'd be very frustrated to find this kind of work required on a boat of this ilk. I can remember a make of boat built in the same area of the globe as your requiring similar work at such a young age, I was drafted in it remove the props, the yard blocked it off just high enough to slide the big four bladers off the shafts , they had to be twisted to clear the ground.
Work commenced and after a few months the props were refitted, the problem was the hull had been planed that much and not supported in other structural areas that it was weakened to such an extent that the hull had dropped towards the keel a few mm not allowing the props to go back on!! The boat had to be lifted to fit the props on. I'd be making sure your overseeing surveyor is up to the mark on this, I'd be asking him all sorts of questions and wanting big reassurance from the repairer. Is the boat being repaired in the shed or outside? .

 

[Piers]

I'd agree there about a contribution towards your bill, I'd be very frustrated to find this kind of work required on a boat of this ilk. I can remember a make of boat built in the same area of the globe as your requiring similar work at such a young age, I was drafted in it remove the props, the yard blocked it off just high enough to slide the big four bladers off the shafts , they had to be twisted to clear the ground.
Work commenced and after a few months the props were refitted, the problem was the hull had been planed that much and not supported in other structural areas that it was weakened to such an extent that the hull had dropped towards the keel a few mm not allowing the props to go back on!! The boat had to be lifted to fit the props on. I'd be making sure your overseeing surveyor is up to the mark on this, I'd be asking him all sorts of questions and wanting big reassurance from the repairer. Is the boat being repaired in the shed or outside? .

Hi VP. Interesting. I will ask some questions. The last thing I need is a 'hogged' hull. However, Play d'eau is being repaired in a heated tent.

 

[Elessar]

Has anyone had the underside of their boat peeled and re gelled?

I'd really like to know of any "if only's", "gotchas" or "with hindsight I would have...".

Peeled and repaired as described, she will be better than new.

Not putting Coppercoat on is a mistake in my view. 1/3 of the cost of Coppercoat is removal of the old coating. You don't have to do this.
"all these stories" of it not working are almost universally 3rd party, whilst most owners love it.

I worry about all the heating and dehumidification described. Unless it's near freezing, water evaporates quickly and heat can mask the true moisture content of a hull. It is (of course) vital that she is dry before coating, not apparently dry because of heat.

If there is some osmosis (not stage 3 which you won't have as you say you "don't have osmosis", but early stages) then you dry this out by jetwashing or steam cleaning daily.

 

[Piers]

Peeled and repaired as described, she will be better than new.

Not putting Coppercoat on is a mistake in my view. 1/3 of the cost of Coppercoat is removal of the old coating. You don't have to do this.
"all these stories" of it not working are almost universally 3rd party, whilst most owners love it.

I worry about all the heating and dehumidification described. Unless it's near freezing, water evaporates quickly and heat can mask the true moisture content of a hull. It is (of course) vital that she is dry before coating, not apparently dry because of heat.

If there is some osmosis (not stage 3 which you won't have as you say you "don't have osmosis", but early stages) then you dry this out by jetwashing or steam cleaning daily.

Interesting. Thank you. If you don't mind I'll put the comment to the surveyor. We are a long way off anti-fouling, so time's available to ponder.

 

[Piers]

Peeled and repaired as described, she will be better than new.

Not putting Coppercoat on is a mistake in my view. 1/3 of the cost of Coppercoat is removal of the old coating. You don't have to do this.
"all these stories" of it not working are almost universally 3rd party, whilst most owners love it.

I worry about all the heating and dehumidification described. Unless it's near freezing, water evaporates quickly and heat can mask the true moisture content of a hull. It is (of course) vital that she is dry before coating, not apparently dry because of heat.

If there is some osmosis (not stage 3 which you won't have as you say you "don't have osmosis", but early stages) then you dry this out by jetwashing or steam cleaning daily.

OK, just had a rapid response from Guy (surveyor).

Regarding moisture and heating, GRP Boat Repairs and he are not expecting a high moisture content below LWL. Once Play d'eau has been peeled and blasted, Guy will be checking again. It is likely without the outer layer that the laminate underneath will have lower moisture, anyway. Any heating / dehumidification would be gentle and only if required. Guy has confidence in GRP Boat Repairs as the Technical Director is highly experienced. The hull will be hot pressure washed after the blasting.

Guy will also be examining the hull for any indication of osmosis.

Turning to Coppercoat, I'm being advised there's now an alternative which is not as critical in timings of applying coats. Have you heard of VeroMetal M300? (http://www.verometalmarine.com/) It appears it only needs one coat.

 

[Elessar]

OK, just had a rapid response from Guy (surveyor).

Regarding moisture and heating, GRP Boat Repairs and he are not expecting a high moisture content below LWL. Once Play d'eau has been peeled and blasted, Guy will be checking again. It is likely without the outer layer that the laminate underneath will have lower moisture, anyway. Any heating / dehumidification would be gentle and only if required. Guy has confidence in GRP Boat Repairs as the Technical Director is highly experienced. The hull will be hot pressure washed after the blasting.

Guy will also be examining the hull for any indication of osmosis.

Turning to Coppercoat, I'm being advised there's now an alternative which is not as critical in timings of applying coats. Have you heard of VeroMetal M300? (http://www.verometalmarine.com/) It appears it only needs one coat.

PM with useful info re moisture sent.

Yes I have. CopperCoat has 2 kg of copper per litre, the max allowed by law. Thats 1/2 kilo per square metre. I can't see how it's possible to put that weight of metal on in a good finish without sagging. And anyway I'd buy the one where you can actually see a boat that was coated 20 years ago with the stuff.

Coppercoat needs 4-5 coats, but the timings aren't that critical. You just need to do all the coats in 1 day, and not too soon, you will know straight away if it's too soon.
You have solvent free epoxy so you can coppercoat soon after that with no risk of solvent entrapment. Just make sure the coppercoat goes on within 24 hours of the last coat of epoxy OR it gets abraded.

On your ship I would abrade the final epoxy for a perfect finish, then do 1 half one day and one half the next. You can do half the boat, just not half the coats. It's not rocket science, you just have to RTFM.

Julian knows coppercoat anyway so he would know all this stuff.