Peak halyard efficiency..

[winch2]

Morning everyone, we have what I think is a bit of an issue with our setup.

Hauling the peak halyard from the cockpit on our little Crabber is incredibly hard until we get it to about 30 deg then of course it begins to ease. The throat halyard however is wonderfully light and free throughout its travel.

Impression Im getting is that all the Cornish boats have a one purchase arrangement for the peak and a two purchase setup for the throat.. which for my thinking seems the wrong way round as all the weight is taken by the peak when the yard is horizontal. Even pulling it down at the mast, its not much better.

Looking at the many old diagrams of various Gaffs on t'internet and many do seem to have at the least a two purchase arrangement for the peak, some even a three block setup.

I'd really like to add another block for next season but my scientist and methodical other half says nope.."Cornish Crabbers have done the maths and the testing and there's no need".

So do I fit another block or leave it and struggle like mad every time we go sailing?

Im stuck.

Muchos.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you feel a 2:1 would help then try it. Why bother what others think. It is what suits you that matters .
It does seem odd that there is not a 2:1 on the peak. There is a technique. I would have though one should get the gaff up near vertical (or working angle) first, then work peak & throat as a pair. If you are taking the throat up ahead of the peak then you are making work for yourself. Just a thought & perhaps you have sussed that anyway. Ask other owners how they go about it.

 

[winch2]

Thanks for that. No, it's all from a standing start with the yard laying on the boom. Ive checked rope interference, points of resistance etc but to no avail. Did notice if I grabbed both sides of the halyard and pulled if back/forth thru the mast head pulley block it didnt feel completely smooth, might be a point of resistance once loaded. There's only two sailing weekends left this season so I'll work some grease into it then sort it properly during the winter lay up.

 

[wombat88]

If it has one make sure the sheave in the mast is large enough to allow the halyard to clear the bottom edge of the opening for the sheave.

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks for that. No, it's all from a standing start with the yard laying on the boom. Ive checked rope interference, points of resistance etc but to no avail. Did notice if I grabbed both sides of the halyard and pulled if back/forth thru the mast head pulley block it didnt feel completely smooth, might be a point of resistance once loaded. There's only two sailing weekends left this season so I'll work some grease into it then sort it properly during the winter lay up.

I am not sure that grease is the right thing. Grease picks up dirt whereas there are sheave sprays that do not. Perhaps some research on that might be prudent.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Using a quality ball race sheave would possibly improve efficiency too, and would still improve efficiency if you then decide to go 2:1. If it just bearing on the pin, grease or no grease, it’s going to have some proper friction. Our boat, though at the opposite end to a Crabber, would be unusable without quality blocks. Anywhere with a serious load is much better for them.

 

[14K478]

Keep the gaff horizontal until the throat is two blocks. Belay the throat, finish hoisting the peak. You may now need to sweat up the throat, then give a final sweat up to the peak.

Boats one size up from the Crabbers usually have a double ended peak halyard with a luff tackle (hence the name!) on the other side to the fall.

If the falls go to starboard then if you set drop and reef at the mast you will be on starboard tack and will have right of way as you do so, so this is a customary arrangement.

 

[14K478]

If you feel a 2:1 would help then try it. Why bother what others think. It is what suits you that matters .
It does seem odd that there is not a 2:1 on the peak. There is a technique. I would have though one should get the gaff up near vertical (or working angle) first, then work peak & throat as a pair. If you are taking the throat up ahead of the peak then you are making work for yourself. Just a thought & perhaps you have sussed that anyway. Ask other owners how they go about it.

I don’t advise hoisting the gaff at any angle other than horizontal until the throat halyard is “two blocks”, then bringing the gaff up to the working position, because if the gaff is already peaked up a bit there will be a force trying to push the saddle or jaws onto the mast, creating additional friction which you don’t need or want.

Bring the gaff up horizontally as far as you can.

I definitely recommend having at least the same purchase on the gaff as on the throat. For one thing this allows you to start hauling on both halyards together.

Since I’m handing out advice, I should state my qualifications for doing so:

I crewed for HW Tilman in 1974 on the Bristol channel pilot cutter Baroque.



I owned this boat from 1973 to 1983 converted her to gaff rig after crewing for Tilman.


I owned this boat from 1984 to 2013:




I have never owned a Crabber but I do have a little experience with gaff cutters larger and smaller than a Crabber.

 

[winch2]

Thanks everyone and yes I do think 2:1 on the peak is the way forward, which will is a winter job for next yr ..This actually has me wondering if it was a cost cutting ploy by the factory as there are other elements on the boat which are a bit cheap and cheerful.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I have to admit my ‘experience’ is limited to a 57 footer, not mine obviously! It took a number of us to raise the mainsail, I doubt it was a lack of purchase

Cost cutting ploys are not unknown…. Do your 2:1 with decent ball race blocks. The boat isn’t huge, the blocks will not be eye wateringly expensive.

 

[John_Silver]

@Plum would have some first hand knowledge, on the gaff rig front…..

 

[14K478]

I don’t think that a single part peak halyard, led to the cockpit, can possibly have been what was intended by the designer and builder. I’m not at all surprised that it is very hard work in practice.

And see here… a two part peak halyard:

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I hope the OP doesn’t have the jackyard topsail. On the 57 that was a menace. No addition of expletives would be sufficient to convey the mast crew’s feelings about it.

 

[14K478]

I hope the OP doesn’t have the jackyard topsail. On the 57 that was a menace. No addition of expletives would be sufficient to convey the mast crew’s feelings about it.

Post #8, and I couldn’t possibly comment!

 

[oldbloke]

Photos of Shrimper 19s show a single purchase whereas the Crabber 22 has a 2 part purchase. There's absolutely no reason not to try a 2 part, but to the extent that some or all of the others find a single part ok I would check the state of your pulleys and make sure the halyard is not over sized.
I know of at least 2 Shrimper 19s that have carbon fibre gaffs to reduce the weight aloft , and 1 that has a ,taller, carbon fibre mast as well.

 

[Daydream believer]

Is a ball race pulley the right thing for a fixed load?
Yes, if the rope is constantly passing through it, as in a genoa sheet. Also with an angled loading. But once the halyard is set with the load on it the balls are all set in one point, all at 180 degrees. Is that the correct use of a typical delrin ball race pulley? Similarly, The pullies on my mast base blocks are not ball race. But could they be?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Is a ball race pulley the right thing for a fixed load?
Yes, if the rope is constantly passing through it, as in a genoa sheet. Also with an angled loading. But once the halyard is set with the load on it the balls are all set in one point, all at 180 degrees. Is that the correct use of a typical delrin ball race pulley? Similarly, The pullies on my mast base blocks are not ball race. But could they be?

We don’t have a single block or sheave which isn’t ball race. Clearly our boat is quite stressed, a lot of load on most lines, so I think races are ok with static loads. Our main (2:1) we grind on a 40 winch on low gear pretty hard

 

[14K478]

When the boat with the blue backyard topsail in #8 above was being built her first owner saved a few quid by specifying “ship grade” blocks not “yacht grade” blocks. The difference was that they had elm shells, not ash. They were internal strop iron bound with “patent” (bronze, caged, roller bearing) sheaves. In 1985 I replaced the bindings. She still has all her original blocks.

 

[oldbloke]

Is a ball race pulley the right thing for a fixed load?
Yes, if the rope is constantly passing through it, as in a genoa sheet. Also with an angled loading. But once the halyard is set with the load on it the balls are all set in one point, all at 180 degrees. Is that the correct use of a typical delrin ball race pulley? Similarly, The pullies on my mast base blocks are not ball race. But could they be?

I would say that in theory you have a point, but in practice for the sort of situations we are talking about the reduced friction in hoisting and adjusting outweighs the risk of squashing your balls. I do however use a metal on metal block on my jib halyard and the boom block on my cascade kicker

 

[14K478]

What matters is that the gaff comes down under gravity, it should never need to be pulled down.

If it were me, and I wanted the halyards in the cockpit, I would bring both ends of the peak halyard down to the deck, turn them at the foot of the mast, and put a luff tackle on one end to make adjustments to the peak really easy and to avoid having an end aloft and out of reach.

This would ideally involve two single blocks up the mast.