Passing inshore of Horse Sand Fort

[stuartwineberg]

Round Britain Power Boat Race

This is actually quite a big deal. One of the veteran boats for the Round Britain Race dropped back onto the barrier at the start and wrecked his props - I forget the name of the boat but I am sure someone will remember. The advice to stick to the marked gap is good.

 

[richardbrennan]

Having sailed out of Portsmouth for many years, I have seen, or perhaps heard would be more descriptive, several boats coming to grief on the barrier. As will be seen on the charts, there's only just over a metre of water in the main gap and the inshore boat passage is even shallower so most average boats with a draft of betwen 1.5 and 2 metres would probably not want to even chance the gap with less than a 2 metre height of tide.

 

[Bav34]

Horrible story that still makes me shiver.

On a friends 43 foot 'Miami Vice' type of powerboat.

850 horsepower and 44 knots.

Quiet day in The Solent , bound for Chichester from Cowes.

44 knots !!!! Sorry, I have to keep reminding myself.

He bangs in Chi Bar as a waypoint and off we go.

Closing on the forts I start looking at him a bit anxiously as its clear that he is leaving the fort to starboard.

Er ...... Dave, I say .... You do know about the barrier?

Gives me a quizzical look but tabs down on his chart plotter ... goes slightly white and steers to go between the forts.

VERY quiet on the trip up to Itchenor.

Admitted later he had been over the barrier at least four times.

Oooops

 

[Simondjuk]

Anyone in the area at the low low waters this weekend might get a peek at the blocks.

 

[l'escargot]

Anyone in the area at the low low waters this weekend might get a peek at the blocks.

There is a good picture here

 

[Seajet]

The blocks have occasional yellow posts, but the anti-submarine barrier is appallingly badly marked, including the hardly discernible line on charts !

A fair few boats have come to grief on it, including a brand new Princess mobo on her maiden delivery trip.

The 'Dolphin passage' as in VicS's photo is the normal route through ( other than going between Horse Sand & No Mans Land Forts, which is also the main shipping channel ) and this is on the bee-line to & from Chichester Beacon at about 090 / 270 magnetic.

As soon as one passes the Dolphin heading West, one is quickly faced with the main shipping channel running N-S in and out of Portsmouth, so it's a very good idea to listen to QHM ( Queens Harbour Master ) on VHF channel 11 to find what's going on, the big ferries don't hang about and the relatively small fast jobs usually take the short cut across the shallows of the Hamilton Bank on the W side of the entrance if the tide allows.

If a ferry or commercial boat intends to do this, they'll call QHM 'request Swashway'.

The Swashway is relatively close inshore, the transit is by lining up the war memorial on the Eastern, Southsea shore with the left side of the black engine house on a block of flats behind ( can't recall the bearing off the top of my head, but the Admiralty went ballistic when the flats were built, the swashway uses to be on a transit of the war memorial and a church until the flats obscured it !

As for the submarine barrier from Horse Sand fort to the shore, the inner ( rather than Dolphin ) passage is quite close inshore, so only really of use if going to & from Langstone Harbour, seeing as the shoals off Hayling foreshore extend a long way out.

 

[davidej]

A bit of Fred Drift but why are Horse Sands so named?

Many of the E coast rivers have one, usually near their estuary.

 

[marklucas]

Thanks everyone (avoids Lakesailer), but how are the passages marked? I was thereabouts last weekend and saw boats crossing, but didn't see where they did it.

The are quite clearly marked with piles at either end - with at least one being lit.

I've been through both in the dark - just take bearings on Spit Sand Fort if you're not using GPS.

 

[Giblets]

A bit of Fred Drift but why are Horse Sands so named?

Many of the E coast rivers have one, usually near their estuary.

Perhaps this thread may help.

 

[Seajet]

The are quite clearly marked with piles at either end - with at least one being lit.

I've been through both in the dark - just take bearings on Spit Sand Fort if you're not using GPS.

Mark,

I have to say I think the anti - submarine blocks are very badly marked considering what a danger they are, since I started fooling around the Solent in the early 1970's I've seen many buttock-clenching, toe-curling examples of people blissfully unaware going straight over them, but I go by the light on the dolphin ( I don't remember the character right now ).

At LW Springs one can easily see them at the Southsea end, drying a foot or two. The shore installation is rather appropriatley called 'Lumps Fort' !

Beware if at night or in bad vis' fishermen often anchor nearby on the same principle as 'wreck fishing', and just to the East of the Barrier towards Langstone Harbour entrance they do just that, over the wreck of a ship which is marked by an 'isolated danger' post.

Years ago I did see a fishing boat who'd got his sums either too right or a bit wrong, perched high & dry on top of the wreck...

 

[Athene V30]

Don't understand why some folk think the barrier is badly marked? It is on the chart - don't people look at charts?

 

[Seajet]

Don't understand why some folk think the barrier is badly marked? It is on the chart - don't people look at charts?

Karouise,

I've been looking at charts since 1970, but I still think the Southsea - Horse Sand barrier is badly marked.

Yes one should look at charts - and even there it's just a thin red line, should be a big red one with 'danger' especially on chart plotters in my view.

Not every skipper is as brilliantly skilled as you & I, but I think sinking less gifted types is a bit strong...

 

[Athene V30]

Guess Bramble Bank is the same? Just a little line and a few small numbers. Some folk sail over it, some round it and some park on top of it!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Several of you calling it an anti-submarine barrier. I doubt it, in that depth of water. More likely an anti-surface raider barrier.

 

[sailorman]

Several of you calling it an anti-submarine barrier. I doubt it, in that depth of water. More likely an anti-surface raider barrier.

we generally go through ( the big gap) on entering Pompy from the East as we have normally lost the tide

 

[VicS]

Several of you calling it an anti-submarine barrier. I doubt it, in that depth of water. More likely an anti-surface raider barrier.

Thats right is not an anti-submarine barrier

Its a submarine barrier .... meaning under the sea.

Its labelled submerged barrier on the chart

Built I believe as a defence against fast torpedo boats

 

[Seajet]

The Solent Forts were built around 1860 on the order of Lord Palmerston, so as no war ensued were known as 'Palmerston's Follies'.

The later barrier was indeed anti-submarine, note all small sub's capable of sneaking around harbours tend to be small and diesel / electric which was the technology in WW1, though I think it has been improved upon.

More than once in mid-Channel I've found an AIP - Air Independent Propulsion - boat which has stored oxygen or makes its' own to run normal engines while submerged going straight under us, not too sure how 'stealthy' as we could hear it coming like a train, presumably on a high speed run...

 

[l'escargot]

?...The later barrier was indeed anti-submarine, note all small sub's capable of sneaking around harbours tend to be small and diesel / electric which was the technology in WW1, though I think it has been improved upon....

No it wasn't. It was to defend against fast torpedo boats coming in along the shore line. It is as said a sub-marine barrier as in submerged.

 

[sailorman]

 

[VicMallows]

Weird isn't it. .......... but I can't bring myself to go over them even at the top of springs.

The big problem is that if you try to the VHF will come alive with everyone for miles around telling you that you are RUNNING INTO DANGER .... probably including QHM .