Painting boot line, scaffolding £3500 big boat

Jamesuk

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I thought painting the bootline would be a tricky affair but £3500 was 'special'. I would double it up with polishing the hull too, but usually do that in the water.

I know in southern Europe the HSE has not arrived yet so cheaper alternatives would be available.

Anyone had the same dilemma or just bite the bullet and pay. We are in an open yard in Southern UK.
 

Tranona

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Probably an insurer requirement under the yard's employee liability. Imagine the size of the claim if a yard worker fell of unsafe staging (as has happened in the past). Lot of labour involved in constructing safe staging in addition to the painting bit on a big boat.
 

Jamesuk

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Edit

Back to Scaffolding: your right it is an insurance thing just wanted to know if scaffoldimg really was that expensive to set up
 
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jwilson

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Judging by the costs of scaffolding for the house (which we need every few years for certain ladder-or-tower-impossible jobs, £3,500 seems way over the top. However the yard will have certain contractors it prefers, and that may be their charge. For the house we did get very different quotes from different companies - at least 2:1 differences.

How big is the boat? On decent concrete hardstanding portable tower scaffolds will give access for almost any topsides job, relatively cheaply.

One marina I know published their H&S rules and sent them out to every user. The section of the rules over "working at height" meant that every fin-keeler and many bilge-keelers would need scaffolding set up right round their decks whenever worked on ashore. Funnily enough even the marina's own maintenance staff don't do that.....
 

ghostlymoron

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The term 'working at height' is defined in H&S legislation. And from memory refers to anything above 2m. (From which height a fall can be fatal). An employer has a legal requirement to assess risks and take steps to provide a safe working environment. Even so, £3.5k sounds excessive.
 

Tranona

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The term 'working at height' is defined in H&S legislation. And from memory refers to anything above 2m. (From which height a fall can be fatal). An employer has a legal requirement to assess risks and take steps to provide a safe working environment. Even so, £3.5k sounds excessive.

He doesn't say that was the cost of the scaffolding, but by the way he describes it the cost of painting the boot top which includes the cost of building the staging to access the area that needs painting.
 

Daydream believer

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The term 'working at height' is defined in H&S legislation. And from memory refers to anything above 2m. (From which height a fall can be fatal). An employer has a legal requirement to assess risks and take steps to provide a safe working environment. Even so, £3.5k sounds excessive.

Working from height can be as little as a few inches
As for scaffolding , prices have rocketed as there is a big demand but few scaffolders with a gold card qualified to do the work.
You might try some of the scaffold system suppliers as their scaffolding is cheaper to erect as labour is cheaper to train
Current scaffold rates in the london area are about £ 18-00 per M2 plus extra for netting, tarps etc ( £ 2-50 per M2) no hire charge for first 4 weeks measure the area on the face of the building up to top level of scaffold ( not the top of the handrail)
If it was me i would hire a couple of towers & erect myself. However, yard may. Object
 

charles_reed

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The term 'working at height' is defined in H&S legislation. And from memory refers to anything above 2m. (From which height a fall can be fatal). An employer has a legal requirement to assess risks and take steps to provide a safe working environment. Even so, £3.5k sounds excessive.

2m is the "height" H&S stipulate (and have done for 25 years).

If the boat was 110m long and the working height about 5m, the £3.5K for erection, one month's hire, disassembly and removal would be about right.

Probably the most economical solution is a scaffold tower - about £80/week plus delivery and collection. I'd chllenge the cost and proposed method of working.

PS We used to use "magic carpets" for high rise racking installations, by far the quickest and least expensive to operate.
 

Daydream believer

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2m is the "height" H&S stipulate (and have done for 25

Wrong, wrong wrong
You are out of date. What may have been years ago is not the case now
Working at height is now any thing that one can fall off. So if there is a single step that is considered working at height
2 m is no longer used as a benchmark.
& whilst i have been involved with such things( having been a building contractor) for all my working life i have just rung an expert in the building industry who has confirmed this is the current H & s thinking as follows:-
There is a quite simple definition for what working ‘at height’ means: a place is ‘at height’ if a person could be injured falling from it.

A cherry picker would be perfectly ok & probably economic, provided a risk assessment was carried out method statement prepared and the operatives properly trained in their operation and made aware of the method specified
 
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GrahamM376

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What's wrong with working on planked steel builders trestles, with a safety harness to guard wires? IIRC my 1.5 metre ones cost around £30 each.
 

fisherman

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One local family firm asked me to put a Youngmans between two scaff towers, then go up a ladder off that to reach the barge board 31 feet up, and complained to the agency when I didn't. Oh, and the ground sloped away from the building and across it. No manager on site, just me, a driver from the firm and my agency labourer. I think they had their fortune read.

That's why this stuff is insisted on and expensive.
 

TwoHooter

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Working at height is now any thing that one can fall off. So if there is a single step that is considered working at height.... 2 m is no longer used as a benchmark.

No harm in referring to the actual legislation:-
Working at Height Regulations 2005 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/regulation/2/made)
“work at height” means—
(a) work in any place, including a place at or below ground level;
(b) obtaining access to or egress from such place while at work, except by a staircase in a permanent workplace,
where, if measures required by these Regulations were not taken, a person could fall a distance liable to cause personal injury;


The Regulations tell you what the law is. As you would expect, the Health & Safety Executive then have their own ideas ... including this very useful list of myths: http://www.hse.gov.uk/work-at-height/myths.htm

Hope that's helpful.
 

pvb

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I thought painting the bootline would be a tricky affair but £3500 was 'special'. I would double it up with polishing the hull too, but usually do that in the water.

You haven't said how the painting is to be done. When I had the stripes painted on my old boat, the cost was high because they had to build staging around the boat in order to continuously spray two-pack Awlgrip paint. And, in order to do the spraying effectively, the mast had to be removed and the boat moved in to a paintshop. Although you haven't said, I'd imagine your £3500 includes the painting, preparation, masking, materials, etc.
 

Daydream believer

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Harnesses do not prevent a fall. They only reduce the distance one falls. There is still, normally, a requirement to prevent the fall. In the first case. A proper method statement along with risk assessment will normally omit your proposal in part but this would be dependant on situation
Research has shown that a casualty will often only survive in a harness after a fall for 20 minutes. There a number of medical documents on this but i do not have the skillset to discuss. However, i am aware that a harness is a last resort item
 

dnickj

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2m is the "height" H&S stipulate (and have done for 25 years).

If the boat was 110m long and the working height about 5m, the £3.5K for erection, one month's hire, disassembly and removal would be about right.

Probably the most economical solution is a scaffold tower - about £80/week plus delivery and collection. I'd chllenge the cost and proposed method of working.

PS We used to use "magic carpets" for high rise racking installations, by far the quickest and least expensive to operate.
 

dnickj

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sorry but you are very wrong over the 2m height
yes 2m use to be used as a guideline but that limit was discounted a number of years ago - working from height is now anything above "ground level" from where someone may fall
ie if you stood on a chair and fell off it would be classed as working at hight
 
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