Oyster SJ41 running backstays

[Njw]

I am considering buying an Oyster 41 and it has running backstays. It says on the survey that the it has a double speader masthead rig with no sweep back to the speaders and no aft lower shrouds. Other info i know, it has a normal adjustable backstay and no inner stays. They survey says it would be in portal to use the runners to keep the rig secure when reaching or running.. The question is when do the runners actually have to be used ie when reaching and running in all wind strengths or just heavy weather, or when large amounts of backstay are applied to prevent bendingetc or are they only for fine tuning and not critical as they would be on a fractional rig.

 

[Quandary]

My experience of runners was on our Sigma 38 which had swept spreaders and could be safely sailed in moderate winds and flattish seas with a slack backstay. We mainly applied the runners in strong winds when we had a racing crew to operate them, but the Sigma had a 3/4 rig so they controlled mast bend with the main sheeted in hard. Cruising we sometimes put them on in heavy weather mainly because they were great for hauling yourself up out of the cockpit to the weather coaming when well heeled.
On your rig the function will be to allow the mast shape to be regulated, particularly when you want to apply a powerful backstay, they should also help to control any tendency of the mast to pant when bashing into a big chop.
I never found them a problem to use, with a 2-1 purchase going to the spinnaker winches, racing you have a spare body to do it and cruising you tack a lot less frequently and frenetically so they would not put me off a boat.

Ps It might be worth trying to get feedback from the previous owner about how and when he used them?

 

[Njw]

Yes I know on a sigma 38 they are not so critical as it has swept speaders. But this has not not got swept back spreaders or shrouds. So it may be a different ball game I will try to get some info off the owner and see what they say.

 

[sailorman]

I have an Oyster37 ( IOR One Tonner ) D spreader rig
she has chainplates in line with the mast @ deck level + baby stay & check stays
The checkstays are only needed in a choppy seaway, bashing to windward or say F5 + off the wind.
I think the SJ 41 rig is possibly more dependent on the checkstays

 

[michael_w]

Checkstays (not runners) on a masthead rig are just there to stop the mast 'pumping' especially when the main has a tuck or two in. They are a doddle to handle.

Not to be confused with a fractional rig with in-line spreaders where the runners and checks are the only thing holding the mast up apart from the mainsail.

 

[sailor211]

If this is the fractional version, i would expect the runners to be necessary most of the time, the check stays to control forward bend. I have not sallied a SJ 41 but the 1/2 and3/4 tonners of the era were fun but the flexi mast and rig control lines gave plenty of heart stopping moments when the runners were not on or were not let off fast enough

We normally has a man dedicated to the runners for tacking. Thinking about it we never lost a mast due to runner problems.

 

[lw395]

Depends on the mast section.
A bendy mast will need the runners much more.
Is there a babystay too?
I sailed a little on a big boat where we didn't really use the runners or babystay below F5 in flat water.
I've seen other rigs with runners to the top of the babystay and checkstays halfway down from there.

I think the techie answer is to know how far out of column the mast should be limited to.

 

[William_H]

"The answer my friend is blowing in the wind" It is a question an owner may never get an answer to unless the mast is lost in a blow in which case he will know those runners and check stays were necessary. That is not to say the mast would be in jeopardy if you just tied the runners back or removed them. It is just that you would need either to get a lot of reports of experience from owners of this boat with this rig or get a very experienced rig designer to do an evaluation of the rig.
There have been discussions recently on this forum on this question but I think for real peace of mind especially in a bit of wind you would need to use the runners. Now this may be no problem on a long open water voyage but might drive you crazy in tight tacking conditions. So IMHO (a very frequent tacker) I would see the rig as a distinct disadvantage so only purchase if the price reflects that fact or you only intend to do long legs. ol'will
PS I have friend who has a 30fter with fractional rig and runners/check stays. (I presume here check stays are extra bits on the runners to give pull at multiple points on the mast from the runners) (hope I have the term tight) Anyway he would love to get rid of runners as our racing involves lots of tacking. We have discussed options but will they give a sufficiently strong rig? He perhaps rightly does not have the courage to remove runners. On the other hand on my little boat I simply discarded the runners and never looked back 35 years ago.

 

[amazinggrace]

I wonder if you still have this set up on your Oyster 37? (I know the thread is old)
I have just purchased an Oyster 37 (Amazing Grace) and the previous owner passed on the running backstays in a box and told me he had removed them as they got in the way when racing. I have no (little) intention to race and so would like to set up the running backstays again as part of the rig. Would you send over a couple of pics of set-up if you have any?

 

[William_H]

I wonder if you still have this set up on your Oyster 37? (I know the thread is old)
I have just purchased an Oyster 37 (Amazing Grace) and the previous owner passed on the running backstays in a box and told me he had removed them as they got in the way when racing. I have no (little) intention to race and so would like to set up the running backstays again as part of the rig. Would you send over a couple of pics of set-up if you have any?

It is not so much a question of "racing" but rather of how frequently you tack and how many crew you have. Fine for long ocean voyages but not much good for tacking up a channel with small crew. Good to have in a storm. ol'will

 

[RJJ]

If it's a masthead rig, then (unless it's a very modern racy square-headed mainsail where a permanent backstay is impossible) you don't have running backstays but checkstays. They do a different job.

Runners are used to tension the forestay AND to hold the mast up, when the backstay and shroud combo may be insufficient on a fractional rig bigger than 25foot or so. Then it's a question of degree...typically, a Sigma 38 with swept spreaders and a rather stiff mast could be gybed without the runners, a 1980s two tonner with in-line spreaders and a mast like a fishing rod, not a chance. (Quite separately you can also have checkstays on a fractional rig). If you have runners, you really need them for sailing upwind and you wouldn't remove them, even for cruising.

On a masthead rig, forestay tension is via the back stay. It should be reassuringly robust. If it's strong enough to tension the forestay, it's strong enough to hold the mast up. Your checkstays help you to manage mast bend and to manage "pumping" which is noisy, slow and at worst could take its toll on the entire rig in ways you might not see but would rather avoid.

The relative thickness of the backstay vs runners/checkstay gives you a good clue. The thicker one holds the mast up.

Your checkstays....in general, you use them when you want to, but you don't have to. If you are short-tacking, it would be fine to leave them loose; do hook them away so they don't take someone's eye out. I very much doubt the integrity of the rig is at stake downwind...but ask a rigger and the class association rather than a surveyor.

 

[Lightwave395]

RJJ's post is on the money,.
My Oyster 395 has checkstays - masthead rig with sraight spreaders - my boat spends most of its life cruising now and the checkstays most of time are clipped to the shroud base. I do use them sometimes on longer trips in lumpy seas in conjunction with the babystay but rarely.
I've owned several racers with fractional rigs and straight spreaders for many years without incident, always had a crew member whose sole responsibilty was the runners, never lost a rig.

 

[amazinggrace]

If it's a masthead rig, then (unless it's a very modern racy square-headed mainsail where a permanent backstay is impossible) you don't have running backstays but checkstays. They do a different job.

Runners are used to tension the forestay AND to hold the mast up, when the backstay and shroud combo may be insufficient on a fractional rig bigger than 25foot or so. Then it's a question of degree...typically, a Sigma 38 with swept spreaders and a rather stiff mast could be gybed without the runners, a 1980s two tonner with in-line spreaders and a mast like a fishing rod, not a chance. (Quite separately you can also have checkstays on a fractional rig). If you have runners, you really need them for sailing upwind and you wouldn't remove them, even for cruising.

On a masthead rig, forestay tension is via the back stay. It should be reassuringly robust. If it's strong enough to tension the forestay, it's strong enough to hold the mast up. Your checkstays help you to manage mast bend and to manage "pumping" which is noisy, slow and at worst could take its toll on the entire rig in ways you might not see but would rather avoid.

The relative thickness of the backstay vs runners/checkstay gives you a good clue. The thicker one holds the mast up.

Your checkstays....in general, you use them when you want to, but you don't have to. If you are short-tacking, it would be fine to leave them loose; do hook them away so they don't take someone's eye out. I very much doubt the integrity of the rig is at stake downwind...but ask a rigger and the class association rather than a surveyor.

Appreciate the clarification! That makes perfect sense.