DAKA
Well-known member
Well thats the whole point of the forum, we will be informed of our opinions once the forum self appointed elite have decided for us
Overloaded charter boat
- Thread starter Steve Clayton
- Start date
Well thats the whole point of the forum, we will be informed of our opinions once the forum self appointed elite have decided for us
alant
Active member
Only mentions passengers!
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...raftandsmallships/mcga-dqs-cvs-newsletter.htm
Searush
New member
They dont look over happy, I reckon they should have taken a Princess 50 booze cruise instead
You're right, it turned out almost all of them were on a one day return trip Oban - Ffionnphort, Mull - Staffa - Iona, then back across to Mull & then Oban. We had an hour on Staffa, I think they got another hour on Iona & the rest of the trip was travelling on ferries or coaches. No wonder they were flagging by the return trip. They were asking if they could get anything to eat on Iona, so they only saw the inside of the pub there!
jfm
Well-known member
I'm saying that merchant shipping law in the uk provides that every merchant ship will have a certified maximum number of persons on board, as well as a maximum number of passengers. Needless to say the requirements as to LRs and LJs are linked to total persons, not passengers (parliament can occasionally be stupid but this one isn't difficult to get right). I think (but am I missing your point?) you're disagreeing and still saying crew headcount can be increased willy nilly without breaking the law, and to support that you're posting a url that ends in "newsletter". Are you for real?
Ceejay
Active member
Adding crew willy nilly
Surely if surplus passengers were to be added as crew to circumvent the coding regs, it would be unlikely that the extra crew would all have ML5 medical certificates or have attended training courses such as sea survival, fire fighting and first aid. Neither would they be able to show the authorities a record of life jacket checks nor a record of rest periods taken as reqired by the maritime hours of rest regs,
Just a thought.
J
Surely if surplus passengers were to be added as crew to circumvent the coding regs, it would be unlikely that the extra crew would all have ML5 medical certificates or have attended training courses such as sea survival, fire fighting and first aid. Neither would they be able to show the authorities a record of life jacket checks nor a record of rest periods taken as reqired by the maritime hours of rest regs,
Just a thought.
J
alant
Active member
I didn't say I disagreed, but simply pointed out this web-link, which you seem not to have bothered to read.
The relevant bits are
"1.2 Small Commercial Vessel and Pilot Boat Code (SCV Code)
The MCA has reviewed, and harmonised the existing codes of practice for small vessels. This was not intended as a simple merger of the small vessel codes, but an opportunity to rationalise and update the requirements where appropriate, to ensure that the “harmonised” code would reflect good practice within the industry. It was not intended however, to produce major changes to the philosophy or content of the Codes, or to place retrospective requirements on vessels currently operating commercially.
Stakeholders from all areas of the marine industry, (including designers, builders, regulators and operators) participated in the Working Group charged with this task of harmonisation. This ensured that the new harmonised code, the “Small Commercial Vessel and Pilot Boat (SCV) Code” remains an “industry-wide” agreed standard. The SCV Code has now been approved for publication and is available for use, as an alternative standard, by all small vessels wishing to be certificated for commercial use through Marine Guidance Note MGN 280 ( PDF Document 920 KB); or in hard copy, from any of the Agency’s Marine Offices. Full implementation of the SCV Code as a free-standing code, in its own right, will follow the coming into force of a Statutory Instrument (Regulations) and the publication of the code, as a Merchant Shipping Notice.
1.3 Rescue Boat Code of Practice
The Agency, in co-operation with stakeholders in the voluntary rescue boat sector, through a working group, have developed a “Code for Under 15 metre Open Rescue Boats”. Final technical and editorial amendments are being considered prior for printing. An MGN is currently in draft which will refer to the code. On completion of the MGN, the Code will be published.
1.4 LY2 The Large Commercial Yacht Code
The “Code of Practice for the Safety of Large Commercial Sailing and Motor Vessels”, or LY1, was introduced in 1998. The Code applies to vessels in commercial use for sport or pleasure, which are 24 metres in “load line” length and over. Or, if they were built before July 1968, are 150 gross tons and over, according to the tonnage measurement regulations at that date. Such vessels are not permitted to carry cargo, or more than 12 passengers.
The code sets standards of safety and pollution prevention, which are appropriate to the size and operation of the vessel. For vessels of this size, standards are normally set by the relevant international conventions. The Code provides equivalent standards, as permitted by these conventions where it is not reasonable or practical to comply with the prescriptive requirements of the international convention.
As with the Codes for small vessels, it was recognised that LY1 would have to be revised to take account of advances in technology and changes of practice. This revision has taken place in consultation with the Large Yacht Industry. All comments from that consultation have been considered by Working Groups comprising experts from the international large yacht industry.
The new Code, now known as The Large Commercial Yacht Code, or LY2 for short, came into effect on 24th September 2004. LY2 has now been revised and is available as Merchant Shipping Notice MSN 1792 ( PDF Document 344 KB ). and it's amendment.
The revision process was designed to fine tune the original Code, rather than change the fundamental requirements, and as such the basic philosophy remains the same. It is important, however, to take account of experience gained through its implementation, and note the two major changes outlined below:
In LY1, there was no upper size limit to the Construction and Equipment sections. However, there is an upper limit of 3000 GT for deck officer qualifications specifically designed for yachts and sail training vessels. The general view amongst the industry was that any yacht of more than 3000 GT should not be built to the code but in accordance with the relevant IMO Conventions. Thus, the upper limit for all applications of the code is now 3000 GT. Existing yachts exceeding 3000 GT which are already operating within the code may of course remain within the code.
Yachts exceeding 3000 GT, for which the building contract was signed before 24th September 2004, may still be built to the code. The code however is intended for genuine yachts and sail training vessels and the Agency will not permit it’s use to be abused by its application to ships for which it was never intended. If a vessel is realistically beyond the scope of the code, it will not be accepted for survey and certification.
Possibly the most significant change in LY2 is the introduction of the category “Short Range Yacht” for those vessels that cannot, or have no operational need to, meet the ‘Unlimited’ criteria. This is particularly relevant to high-powered yachts with large engines that do not meet the subdivision and ‘damage survivability’ requirements in relation to engine-room flooding.
The parameters for Short Range Yachts are:-
Less than 300 GT (for new vessels); or Less than 500 GT (for existing vessels); Operation up to 60 miles from a safe haven (this may be increased to 90 miles on specified routes with the agreement of the Administration); and Operation within favourable weather – Force 4 by forecast/actual.
We believe that these yachts will not be unduly hampered in their operations and the weather restriction may actually assist Captains when they seek, for reasons of good seamanship, to avoid rough conditions. Due to the proximity of a safe haven and a reasonable presumption of available assistance, there is also a reduction in the requirements for structural fire protection (a weight-saving that will further benefit high-speed craft). “Short Range Yachts” are also permitted reduced standards of weathertight integrity, such as in sill heights and window specifications.
Additionally, provided that the yacht can demonstrate adequate maneuverability for man-overboard recovery; there is no need for a Rescue Boat to be carried. However, it is necessary for the person maneuvering the yacht to be able to see the recovery operation whilst maneuvering, although this may be achieved by the use of remote controls. Recovery should not be over the stern or adjacent to propellers"
Specifically "Such vessels are not permitted to carry cargo, or more than 12 passengers."
It makes no mention regarding crew numbers.
jfm
Well-known member
We were debating whether it's unlawful to add crew willy nilly, and you have linked to a "relevant" newsletter which merely mentions in passing that yachts built to LY1 are limited to 12pax. I've kinda lost the will to live on this one!
alant
Active member
jfm
Well-known member
Erm, well, let's see. Because it is a newsletter. It's not the law. And anyway it doesn't give any basis whatever for your position. But I really do give up here.
Gotta run to boat now...