ouzo - the complete report. Change colregs?

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Someone recommended strobe lights. They are specifically forbidden in Colregs, excepting for air cushion vehicles ('cos where they're pointing is not necessarily where they're going) and pairs trawling purse seine netters.

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Hate to disagree, but C&V says:
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Rule 36
Signals to attract attention.
If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorised elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarrass any vessel. Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.
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Flashing nav/steaming lights has some merit, but I'd rather have the IMO onto me for doing something that "shall be avoided" than be run down.

They might think I'm a VQ or UQ north cardinal, but at least they won't hit me.
 
You say hate to disagree, then post a direct quote which says

"For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided."
 
Same logic as I use when telling SWMBO "if someone attacks you and you can't run, go straight for his nuts or belt him with your heavy bag, I'd rather hire a shyster to defend you than identify your body."

Simplistic but the principle seems apllicable here.
 
The term 'shall be avoided' is not prescriptive. If the Regs were certain about the use of such devices they would have said words like 'must not be used', or 'are forbidden'.
So we are looking at guidance material rather than a regulation as such, and the door is open.
 
Actually, thinking about it, this could explain the flashing lights on the Solent Fastcats - they felt they needed more visibility and this was the only viable method. So they were unable to avoid it.
 
I read through the Ouzo report and the report on radar reflectors yesterday. In my view the MAIB report omitted one important dimension to this - collisions between yachts and large vessels are very rare, when you consider how many yacht voyages there are. I reckon there are many other greater risks involved in sailing/motoring a yacht. And that means there are probably better things to spend your safety money on than an expensive SEA-ME (though clearly they work well).

It seems from the Qinetiq report that there is a good chance that Ouzo would not have been detected even if it had the large Echomax 230 radar reflector. Detection requires a sequence of "hits" by the radar and a very diligent radar watch.

And for people thinking of Class B AIS it is worth noting that the POB did not have AIS contacts showing on its radar (not clear if it had the capability).

I have for a long time been convinced that the official IMO navigation light arrangements are useless - especially on large brightly lit ships or small boats close to the sea surface. Why don't they change to bright strobes - perhaps with coded flashing sequences. Think of the distance from which you can see an aircraft's lights. I will definitely get a strobe.

There was no indication that POB was not transmitting AIS and I plan (for a variety of reasons including curiosity) to get an AIS receiver. That should have shown up the change of course.

Also, an EPIRB seems to have moved up my priority list.
 
Even with the high traffic around the solent and south coast, incidents like this with the Ouzo are (thankfully) few and far between.

Whilst I think we can all learn from this tragic accident I do not believe there is anything inherently wrong with the colregs. If the reports assumptions are true and the Ouzo had a close encounter with the PoB then what occured was a mixture of bad practice on PoB and probably a lack of good radar reflection equipment on the Ouzo.

This accident highlights the need for all of us to reconsider our collision avoidance equipment and passage plans for the future
Would you now head off around St Cats in a lumpy sea at night without concern that you might not be seen by a ferry?
I hope a lot of ppl with Photo chromatic glasses are now considering clear glasses for night passages (the light loss had apparently not been considered prior to this report).

There are all sorts of ways of making yourself visible - I still believe the best way is to avoid the situation if possible and next best is to make sure you appear on their radar.
 
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The term 'shall be avoided' is not prescriptive. If the Regs were certain about the use of such devices they would have said words like 'must not be used', or 'are forbidden'.

[/ QUOTE ] So, do colregs really use 'shall' as not prescriptive? If so, their very first sentence should surely be changed to say 'must' rather than 'shall' in the following:
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a)These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels

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Harrummphh (puts on pompous lawyer's voice).

"Shall" is almost invariably prescriptive. It means you must.

It's the words following "shall" that may qualify it. Here, the words are "...be avoided." So, you must avoid using certain types of signal such as strobes.

If this was an English law document, I have little doubt that there would be a flurry of court cases about the meaning of "avoided". Is it to be taken literally or is it simply that you must try your best not do something, but that if all else fails, well okay then? That would create a body of common law that could be read alongside the ColReg to aid in interpreting it.

Here we seem to have no such assistance. So the relevant extract might mean "Don't do it, no matter what" or it might mean "Try everything else first".

(Lawyerspeak for "F*** knows what it's meant to mean, but if I say something the question may go away. That'll be £100 please) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Actually, thinking about it, this could explain the flashing lights on the Solent Fastcats - they felt they needed more visibility and this was the only viable method.

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Since none of the resident maritime pro's has step in here… I thought the flashing nav lights signified an airborne craft and like a hovercraft, a seacat just qualifies as an airborne craft.
 
submarines, purse seiners, rnli, official harbour launches and police craft also use flashing nav lights .....

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
The intention behind strobes for air cushion vehicles was that they don't necessarily point where they go, so people should be warned of this when interpreting their lights.

Fast catamarans don't qualify as air cushion vehicles. However, due to their speed, in practice they have to pick their way through all slower craft, choosing courses to avoid others, even when another may be a give way vessel. I'm not aware what qualifies them to use strobes - machismo?
 
Re: Flashing lights on high-speed craft?

There is an ongoing debate within the IMO whether or not high-speed craft should have special rules and signals applied to them. Recent changes in the Rules have included a red strobe for WIG craft, but so far nothing for high-speed craft. I believe there is a concerted push to use the amber strobe (ACVs) for high-speed craft as well. Can't speak for the fast cats, but would assume that their reason for using a strobe would either be a local rule, or (lacking an actual rule) it's a strategy to indemnify themselves in the event of a collision, as they've taken extra precautions to identify their unique status. Law being what it is, and it is generally derived from common usage; maybe the onus is on the operators of fast craft to lead the legislators.
 
Re: Flashing lights on high-speed craft?

The problem of seeing lights is not confined to high speed craft. It is hard to see the nav lights on any brightly lit commercial ship (including fishing boats with floodlights). Equally there is a problem with small boats having lights close to the sea surface and perhaps hidden by the swell, or by rolling motion. Strobe lights should be the norm for all - perhaps with a coded flashing sequence.
 
Re: Flashing lights on high-speed craft?

The trouble with strobes on everything is that strobes tend to wash-out other nav lights, thus making it impossible to determine the aspect visually. Agree that fishing boats tend to use extremely bright deck lights that interfere with the nav-lights, but I've rarely had problems with the lights on other vessels.
 
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