Outrigger on the VOR boats?

[Foolish Muse]

What is the small outrigger on each side, near the stern, of the VOR boats? It's too small to be for the shrouds and it doesn't appear to be for the runners. Any ideas?

 

[KevinT1]

Spinnaker sheet

 

[TallBuoy]

What is the small outrigger on each side, near the stern, of the VOR boats? It's too small to be for the shrouds and it doesn't appear to be for the runners. Any ideas?

View attachment 66956

Jockey poles to hold the sheets out, for the best angle.

 

[Foolish Muse]

Just for the spinnaker sheet? Or for the guy too? Are there other boats with these?

They'd be a great place to put a video camera for covering the entire cockpit.

 

[flaming]

Just for the spinnaker sheet? Or for the guy too? Are there other boats with these?

They'd be a great place to put a video camera for covering the entire cockpit.

They don't have guys, they're A-sail only.

What's more interesting is that they have to amend the RRS for the class in order to alow it. Which is why when they do the fastnet etc they are never irc rated and never feature in the overall results.

 

[Foolish Muse]

they're A-sail only.

Of course. Makes a lot more sense for asyms. The shape of the foil can be better adjusted. Are they used on any other boats?

 

[flaming]

Of course. Makes a lot more sense for asyms. The shape of the foil can be better adjusted. Are they used on any other boats?

See above - they are not legal under RRS so only boats racing in races where that rule is modified can, and I've not heard of any other races that do.

 

[Foolish Muse]

And here I thought they were fishing outriggers. All a part of sailing's recent efforts to be completely self sustaining. No fossil fuel. No GMO food.

 

[Triassic]

See above - they are not legal under RRS so only boats racing in races where that rule is modified can, and I've not heard of any other races that do.

I'm assuming there is something in the rules that allows spinnaker poles then because that is basically all they are, a means of poling out one corner of a sail? I'm surprised more and more performance monohulls don't use them, we have to barber haul the jib as soon as we crack off from close hauled although obviously I don't need a pole to do it.

 

[flaming]

I'm assuming there is something in the rules that allows spinnaker poles then because that is basically all they are, a means of poling out one corner of a sail? I'm surprised more and more performance monohulls don't use them, we have to barber haul the jib as soon as we crack off from close hauled although obviously I don't need a pole to do it.

50.2 Spinnaker Poles; Whisker Poles
Only one spinnaker pole or whisker pole shall be used at a time
except when gybing. When in use, it shall be attached to the foremost
mast.
50.3 Use of Outriggers
(a) No sail shall be sheeted over or through an outrigger, except as
permitted in rule 50.3(b) or 50.3(c). An outrigger is any fitting
or other device so placed that it could exert outward pressure
on a sheet or sail at a point from which, with the boat upright, a
vertical line would fall outside the hull or deck. For the purpose
of this rule, bulwarks, rails and rubbing strakes are not part of
the hull or deck and the following are not outriggers: a
bowsprit used to secure the tack of a sail, a bumkin used to
sheet the boom of a sail, or a boom of a boomed headsail that
requires no adjustment when tacking.
(b) Any sail may be sheeted to or led above a boom that is
regularly used for a sail and is permanently attached to the
mast from which the head of the sail is set.
(c) A headsail may be sheeted or attached at its clew to a spinnaker
pole or whisker pole, provided that a spinnaker is not set.

Note that the rule on outriggers consistently mentions "sheet" which of course is different to "guy", which a spinnaker pole attaches to. Note also that there are specific exemptions for using a spinnaker pole or whisker pole to pole out a jib.

 

[wotayottie]

I suppose the answer would be to extend the deck a few feet outboard on either side, bit like an aircraft carrier. Being deck it cannot be either outrigger or device.

 

[Triassic]

So Flaming, if I read 50.3(c) correctly there is nothing to stop you using a pole to move the jib sheeting angle outboard whilst close reaching as you wouldn't be using a spinnaker then? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm genuinely interested in finding out why it isn't far more common practice than it appears. I have zero experience racing fast monohulls but I know it's absolutely essential on my F27 otherwise you can't maintain the jib shape and flow through the slot and I would have thought the aerodynamics would be the same regardless of how many hulls you have.

 

[flaming]

So Flaming, if I read 50.3(c) correctly there is nothing to stop you using a pole to move the jib sheeting angle outboard whilst close reaching as you wouldn't be using a spinnaker then? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm genuinely interested in finding out why it isn't far more common practice than it appears. I have zero experience racing fast monohulls but I know it's absolutely essential on my F27 otherwise you can't maintain the jib shape and flow through the slot and I would have thought the aerodynamics would be the same regardless of how many hulls you have.

Yes, however the pole has to be attached to the main mast. Which rules out using it for anything overlapping the mast. So a code zero type sail will always be faster.

 

[Allan]

On some minitransat boats I've seen there appears to be something similar. It's normally a hinged device at the widest part of the hull. Is that the same?
Could you do a similar thing with a jockey pole?
Allan

 

[Triassic]

Yes, however the pole has to be attached to the main mast. Which rules out using it for anything overlapping the mast. So a code zero type sail will always be faster.

So could you use a code zero with 20+ knots of wind at say 50 degrees? (both apparent).

 

[flaming]

Depends on the boat surely? But on most boats 50 degrees and a non overlapping job will just see an outboard lead used.

 

[Keen_Ed]

On some minitransat boats I've seen there appears to be something similar. It's normally a hinged device at the widest part of the hull. Is that the same?
Could you do a similar thing with a jockey pole?
Allan

Outriggers on minis are to give a better angle on the guy controlling the bowsprit.

 

[Allan]

Outriggers on minis are to give a better angle on the guy controlling the bowsprit.

Ah yes, I can imagine that now. It must be a little like a jockey pole then? I guess they have the both out so they can gybe?
Allan

 

[TLouth7]

So Flaming, if I read 50.3(c) correctly there is nothing to stop you using a pole to move the jib sheeting angle outboard whilst close reaching as you wouldn't be using a spinnaker then?

N12s (monohull dinghy) use quite a clever pole arrangement to push the jib clew out and down when reaching (and to fully goosewing on a run). It allows you to ease the sheet without getting excessive twist and camber, much like having a wider sheet lead. This is a non-overlapping sail though.

For performance monohulls the jib lead is often pretty narrow, so there is plenty of scope for a wider lead without going outside the boat, with all the faff that that entails. Setting a pole to leeward on a reach would be quite exciting for the bowman on some yachts.

 

[Triassic]

I've tried to find a photo to show the arrangement on my F27 but found a video instead.... I've no idea if this can be viewed on here but worth a go! Ignore the first 30 seconds, the helm had never sailed before so I was making sure he didn't put us on Margate sands whilst I made the breakfast (ketchup bottle in hand) but the rest of the clip shows the way the jib is set up and the chap with the camera is even considerate enough to pan onto the instruments so you can see the wind information. Hopefully you'll be able to see how far the jib is sheeted out whilst still retaining it's shape, and if you use my main hull deck as a guide (it's not that much narrower than a 27' mono) you can see how far outboard the block has to be.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fimcxi0vrsky8t/IMG_0460.MOV?dl=0