Outboard hints required

[Greenheart]

Six months after taking delivery, I finally started my 15-year-old 5hp Mariner 2-stroke. It was no great effort, started on about the sixth pull, even though I had no idea what I was doing with the choke. I was dazzled that I managed not to over-fill the water-tank - it didn't slop over the side even when I put it in gear! :biggrin-new:

Apart from being appalled (though not surprised) at the way it turned 60 litres of crystal-clear drinkable water into opaque brownish scum in five or six minutes, I'm very happy, but I do have questions that I hope readers can answer.

A small point first: the cooling water tell-tale...even before the engine started, a jet of water squirted out of the tell-tale when I pulled it over. Once the engine was running, the water poured out and I was confident all was well...

...but after perhaps five minutes' continuous running, the jet of water had reduced to a dribble or steady drip, even if I revved the engine. I think I've heard that this isn't a serious cause for concern, but I'd like to hear it again here.

More seriously, there seems to be an issue with the way the engine is meant to be locked in the 'down' position. A neat little spring-loaded metal flap accessible from either side, lifts, apparently to unlock a hooked frame which looks like it should lock onto a bar fitted between the holes visible on both sides...

...except, there's no bar between the holes, so there's nothing for the hook to hold onto. I can see that there are also hanging bars with ends that stick out sideways, which look as if they could lock into the holes...but at no angle I tried, did these bars line up with the holes...

...so as the engine was running, it wasn't especially secure in its orientation - and if I'd run it in reverse, I'm certain the prop would have thrust itself to the surface.

There may be something wrong with the set up, or with how I've positioned the 'dogs' or screws on the timber frame, although that looked very straightforward, and no different to how it would fit on a transom or bracket.

The spring-loaded pivoting frame that doesn't hook onto anything, looks like it should engage with the shiny steel pin sticking upward in the pic below...but again, it doesn't actually make contact.

Maybe someone has seen all this before and knows what's wrong, or what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

 

[Daverw]

There should be a rod or bar between the castings that is adjustable, which you seem to be missing, so you can lock at different angles, this holds the leg down in reverse, it’s lever is linked to the reverse gear lever rod, when in forward does not lock to allow the leg to kick up if you hit something.

 

[VicS]

Six months after taking delivery, I finally started my 15-year-old 5hp Mariner 2-stroke. It was no great effort, started on about the sixth pull, even though I had no idea what I was doing with the choke. I was dazzled that I managed not to over-fill the water-tank - it didn't slop over the side even when I put it in gear! :biggrin-new:
.
.
Maybe someone has seen all this before and knows what's wrong, or what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

Firstly have you read the owner's manual ? I am sure it will answer many of your questions


If you have mislaid the original copy download one from http://download.brunswick-marine.com/download/preparesearch?mod=4&lang=EN

I think the relevant manual is the second in this list http://download.brunswick-marine.co.../desc?mod=4&lang=EN&categories=OUTBOARD$2004$

It does appear that the "tilt pin" or "thrust rod" and spring are missing. #12 and 13 in this diagram and list https://www.boats.net/catalog/mercu...lgium-cat-90-804067/clamp-and-swivel-brackets, but you can make something with a piece of suitably dimensioned stainless steel bar, threaded on the ends , and a couple of nuts.


BTW I don't believe that the reverse lock is linked to the gear shift on this model as Dave W suggests.... but the manual should clarify that point



I am not so sure your water tank is big enough. The water level must be at least a couple of inches above the join between the gear case and the "leg" to ensure that the water pump is always flooded. Remove the prop if you are going to run it in gear.

Try a bigger tank but if the full pee stream is not maintained check that the telltale outlet and/or hose are not blocked, If they are clear the water pump may need a new impeller or the cooling system may be blocked . You should have a good pee stream all the while the engine is running or it will overheat.

You will get unburnt 2 stroke oil contaminating the water but excessive oiliness may be due to gear oil leakage. Check/ change the gear oil if you have not done so. If the old oil is milky then it indicates that water is getting in and new seals are called for.

Finally, for now, use a 50:1 fuel mix as recommended for commercial use rather than the 100:1 suggested for pleasure use

 

[Boathook]

The water tell tale hole sounds blocked with salt and possibly sand crystals. A small bit of wire pushed up into it when the engine is running should clear it. You may need to do this a few times. If the flow doesn't improve it is likely that the water pump impeller requires replacing.

 

[lw395]

The shiny pin circled in the last picture should drop when reverse is selected, lowering the hooks onto the absent bar between the holes.
The bar is sometimes in the form of a long 'drop nose pin' with a spring at the fixed end. So it can be adjusted without tools.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TILT-LOC...762308?hash=item33d3cd0ac4:g:f7MAAOSw20JZfJYb
But any rod which fits the holes should do.
I just put 'outboard tilt pin' into ebay to find that. Alternatives just have an r pin in one end.

The bent rods highlighted in the third pic can locate in the slots in the clamp casting, to hold the motor in the tilted and possibly semi-tilted/'shallow water' position.

 

[Greenheart]

Thank you gents. What you say makes sense, although there's still a lot here that I don't understand.

I've opened one of the manual-links (thanks Vic) and I'm hoping it's effectively the same as my engine, though I haven't found a serial number anywhere on mine so I can't identify exactly which model it is. I've only established previously (from the logo design) that it's one from around 2002 to 2005.

I've heard that the tank depth ought to allow submersion of the leg to a depth of 100mm or (4 inches) above what I'll call the 'cavitation plate', and that seems to be reflected in this picture, in the manual...

...the black line indicating water level there, is slightly below the depth in my plastic trunk. But there's a section in the manual that explains how to flush the system, which very particularly specifies "Do not run the engine while flushing the cooling system"...

...I thought that was the whole purpose of starting the engine in the tank of water. Isn't it? They advise attaching a hose instead.

I will certainly try pushing a wire up the telltale. My impression had been that it doesn't take much to block the telltale, but that the water pump may nevertheless be doing an ample job of cooling the much larger passages.

I tried watching the shiny pin as I put the engine in reverse today, and it certainly does descend, which would allow the pivoting hook on the 'reverse lock' to grip a bar positioned between the holes. This looks very cleverly worked-out, and I'm grateful for the explanation here. The problem is that even with the pin dropped in reverse, the pivoting 'frame' does not seem to be shaped in a way that allows the hooks to drop low enough to grip the bar between the holes...the main trunk of the engine leg prevents it...

...I positioned a piece of 5mm studding through the holes to see if the hooks would grasp it, but in their lowest position, they're still above the studding. I was thinking the shape might have been distorted by damage, but it looks perfect - except it doesn't pivot low enough.

I can well visualise that the hanging bent rods will fit into those holes when the motor is tilted up out of the water, that makes sense.

I had never realised that in normal forward-gear use, an outboard is not locked down, but can swing up.

For extended deep-water work, if I want to use reverse gear and if I cannot make the lock hook onto a cross-piece, would it be possible or a really bad idea, to hook something like a length of wire coat hanger (or dyneema) through a hole on one side, take it round the back of the leg then through a hole on the other side, so the wire holds the leg down, preventing the prop from levering it skyward?

Thanks to you all, again. I had to move the engine today, and was surprised at how heavy it isn't. Over the summer I'd somehow persuaded myself it's a monster, but aside from the details I haven't looked at for long enough or in decent daylight, it seems to be a good little engine.

 

[prv]

For extended deep-water work, if I want to use reverse gear and if I cannot make the lock hook onto a cross-piece, would it be possible or a really bad idea, to hook something like a length of wire coat hanger (or dyneema) through a hole on one side, take it round the back of the leg then through a hole on the other side, so the wire holds the leg down, preventing the prop from levering it skyward?

I'd have thought you're unlikely to run the engine in reverse for any great length of time or at high power. Maybe try it first, holding the head back (hence the prop down) with one hand if needed?

I've certainly had an outboard bump up and over something occasionally while running forwards - either floating debris or the bottom I didn't realise was getting so shallow - so I'd be reluctant to strap it down full-time.

Pete

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Just a thought on the pin that rises up and down when engaging reverse gear.

Try lubrication on the pin and give it a really good working up and down to make sure
it's moving freely and achieving the full travel.

Often you need a few quick bursts of reverse when berthing and I can sympathise
with the frustration of the outboard kicking up and whacking the pontoon.

About every few months I have to spring the pin up and down manually a number of times to keep it free.

 

[langstonelayabout]

...the black line indicating water level there, is slightly below the depth in my plastic trunk. But there's a section in the manual that explains how to flush the system, which very particularly specifies "Do not run the engine while flushing the cooling system"...

...I thought that was the whole purpose of starting the engine in the tank of water. Isn't it? They advise attaching a hose instead.

Later engines can be flushed using mains-pressure water delivered to the engine through 'flushing mufflers' on the leg of the engine or straight into the flushing point under the cover (if the engine has one).

It is probably under these circumstances that the engine doesn't need to be running.

 

[VicS]

Later engines can be flushed using mains-pressure water delivered to the engine through 'flushing mufflers' on the leg of the engine or straight into the flushing point under the cover (if the engine has one).

It is probably under these circumstances that the engine doesn't need to be running.

It has a flushing connection for a hose. Or at least the place to fit one. See the manual.
I don't think you can use "muffs"
The engine should not be run when flushing by this method because there is proper no water supply to the water pump. Not necessary any way.

 

[VicS]

here's a section in the manual that explains how to flush the system, which very particularly specifies "Do not run the engine while flushing the cooling system"...

...I thought that was the whole purpose of starting the engine in the tank of water. Isn't it? They advise attaching a hose instead.
image: http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.png

There are in effect two ways you can flush the engine:

In a tank like you are already doing. The advantage of this method is that you don't need a hose
OR
Fitting the flushing connection and attaching a hose. The advantage of this method is that you don't need a tank.

Dont run the engine when using the hose because there is no water supply to the pump .... also no risks associated with exposed revolving prop if you should put it in gear..

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

There should be a rod or bar between the castings that is adjustable, which you seem to be missing, so you can lock at different angles, this holds the leg down in reverse, it’s lever is linked to the reverse gear lever rod, when in forward does not lock to allow the leg to kick up if you hit something.

You can use a "drop-nose pin" of the correct length, obtainable from your chandelry or online.
The advantage of using this, over a bolted-in solution is that you can quickly move it to a different pair of holes, if necessary, to suit the slant of the transom.

 

[VicS]

You can use a "drop-nose pin" of the correct length, obtainable from your chandelry or online.
The advantage of using this, over a bolted-in solution is that you can quickly move it to a different pair of holes, if necessary, to suit the slant of the transom.

The slant of my transom never changes. I

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for these further replies.

Today I tried it again...and I can't say why, but now the outboard locks down. I didn't even attempt to put it in reverse, but at one point I heard a click and the engine no longer tilts forward.

I think I hadn't previously rocked the engine down hard enough. I'm confident that if I lift the sprung tab behind the leg, it will disengage whatever it is that has secured the engine in that position. I certainly hope so - because having felt glad that I'd achieved the locking-down, I couldn't get the engine to run in forward gear! Only reverse. A few pints of water leapt out of the tank.

So, the system allows the engine to run in forward gear when it is free to kick up, or locks it down for reversing, but I hadn't realised how mutually exclusive these options are - the gear-shifter cannot be moved into forward when the leg is locked, nor into reverse when it isn't. I daresay that was all obvious to you gents, but it wasn't to me. I guess after a long while out of use, the slick switching between modes needs use - same as I need practice.

On the up-side, the tell-tale squirted out water from start to finish today, but the engine is in the garage and I can't face running it again tonight. It's hellish, how much choking smoke comes from the 2-stroke system, even though it seems to run well and smoothly.

One thought comes to mind - is it a bad thing to leave the leg immersed in the fresh water tank? Fresh, as opposed to salt...it's a long way from clean, now.

 

[Greenheart]

November 23rd

I took a long look in daylight today, and the answers were clearer to see. Various points:

1) Fully tilted up, the hanging bars with out-turned ends don't actually lock into any of those holes in the frame; they simply lodge on top of the casting. I've touched up the photo to clarify as well as ringing the bar-end...

2) The spring-loaded hooks which I had imagined should connect to an adjustable (missing) pin between the holes either side of the frame, actually locks into a simple flat plate that sits almost flush with the transom or (here) the wood bracket supporting the engine...

3) ...and that flat plate for the hooks, isn't as flat as when it came out of the factory, and its proximity to the transom means the hooks were prevented from easily gripping the plate. The result was as I had discovered by accident - that the hooks only engage when the motor was 'rocked' firmly into the down position.

But the system which locks the engine down when reverse is engaged, while allowing it to swing up whilst in forward gear, is admirably thought-out, and still functions as it should.

The only thing I'm left wondering, is what those holes in the frame are actually for...but it won't keep me awake!

 

[TSB240]

November 23rd

I took a long look in daylight today, and the answers were clearer to see. Various points:

1) Fully tilted up, the hanging bars with out-turned ends don't actually lock into any of those holes in the frame; they simply lodge on top of the casting. I've touched up the photo to clarify as well as ringing the bar-end...

2) The spring-loaded hooks which I had imagined should connect to an adjustable (missing) pin between the holes either side of the frame, actually locks into a simple flat plate that sits almost flush with the transom or (here) the wood bracket supporting the engine...

3) ...and that flat plate for the hooks, isn't as flat as when it came out of the factory, and its proximity to the transom means the hooks were prevented from easily gripping the plate. The result was as I had discovered by accident - that the hooks only engage when the motor was 'rocked' firmly into the down position.

But the system which locks the engine down when reverse is engaged, while allowing it to swing up whilst in forward gear, is admirably thought-out, and still functions as it should.

The only thing I'm left wondering, is what those holes in the frame are actually for...but it won't keep me awake!

The holes in the frame allow for an overhanging transom and for the cross pin to engage with the hooks. If you have a vertical transom you can live with your set up. Any angle on your transom and you need to tilt the engine and use the
missing cross pin.

 

[VicS]

November 23rd

I

2) The spring-loaded hooks which I had imagined should connect to an adjustable (missing) pin between the holes either side of the frame, actually locks into a simple flat plate that sits almost flush with the transom or (here) the wood bracket supporting the engine...



3) ...and that flat plate for the hooks, isn't as flat as when it came out of the factory, and its proximity to the transom means the hooks were prevented from easily gripping the plate. The result was as I had discovered by accident - that the hooks only engage when the motor was 'rocked' firmly into the down position.

But the system which locks the engine down when reverse is engaged, while allowing it to swing up whilst in forward gear, is admirably thought-out, and still functions as it should.

The only thing I'm left wondering, is what those holes in the frame are actually for...but it won't keep me awake!

The hooks of the reverse lock should latch onto the pin, (which is missing) through a pair of holes in the clamp bracket sides when reverse gear is selected The 6 pairs of holes provide the means to adjust the tilt angle of the motor to suit the transom angle.

The hokks are not intended to latch on to the flat plate. It is a distance plate between the two clamp bracket side frames. I am surprised there is sufficient clearance between the plate and the transom for the hooks to latch on to it.

Fit a bar of some sort through the holes in the clamp bracket frames and look again more carefully to find out why the hooks on the reverse lock are not latching onto it when reverse gear is selected.


T

 

[Greenheart]

I can see that's how it ought to work, except that at present, it doesn't. I tried putting a piece of studding between the holes, but the hooks just swing well clear over the top, and click neatly in to the plate at the front. If that has been added as a late modification, it seems to answer better than the original.

The sprung-hook seems to be a single, unmodified component; it aligns perfectly with the F/N/R gear shift pin, but in no position do the hooks come anywhere in range of a bar placed through the holes.

Difficult to see what a previous owner's purpose would have been in changing the standard set-up, except this way, it now allows the leg to hang slightly "less than vertical", whereas all the holes only would allow for greater and greater rearward tilt.

 

[Daverw]

Is it possible rather than a simple piece of bar between the holes it was a piece of plate with the bar locating it. Seems the only way as I’ve never seen an other that locks on the very back plate. As said this is normally just to hold the casting worst and stop it splaying. This would normally be against normally be flat against the transomnand this would stop the hooks engaging. Not sure why you would want the leg to go forward ahead of vertical unless the original transom was angled forwards.

 

[Greenheart]

I agree. If I could weld a piece of steel plate between a pair of pipes, each pipe could hold a rod that could lodge securely in the holes...

...and the plate could stick up above the pipes. The difficulty with using the holes to position a single rod or bar, is that one on its own will just twist in the holes, so the plate (which must project upward half an inch, in order to be caught by the hooks) will flop over and hang beneath, under gravity.

I can make something that will work from stainless off-cuts, but it's a lot more difficult than it ought to be for no apparent reason.