Out of comfort zone

[Cerebus]

There is a long post about this and I think mine is different.

It was my first boat delivery job as lowly crew. I should have been well out of my comfort zone coming from dinghy sailing to a couple of years of 20 foot LOA estuary sailing. I had blagged my experience and position onto the boat to gain mileage.

F8 gale up Irish Sea in a very expensive boat. Wheel diameter was greater than my height almost! Fore sail only (I applauded myself at not allowing it to back of flog and snap as other crumby crew member did. The skipper was good and only 27 years of age, but asleep whenever I was on watch).

It was pretty horrible. The weather was awful, but at least it was a following sea.

The cavitation as the boat was picked up by the following (or pushing) sea could be felt beneath my feet even though there was a master cabin below me. I found that very interesting in a Kevlar hulled boat. Invigorating too; to feel the boat picked up, feel the thunder, adapt one’s helm… but not too much because she would come back onto course.

I never had a care. I had a life jacket on and was tethered (less safety gear on my person than I would have now). I was diligent inspire of what I am writing and sailed well.

I had life insurance.

Other two crew asleep. (Many a time I wished there had been intercom to cabins.)

Simply… it was not my boat and I was not skipper and I was not bothered by much at all except the boredom and discomfort.

I was doing my best and that seemed adequate. I knew many things could go wrong but strangely I did not care.

I do not know to this day if I had a death wish. I never felt in danger, so I think not. The responsibility was with the sleeping skipper, and well known delivery company. I was doing ok. But if it went pear shaped, all i had to do was float and stay alive until rescue (I was in my 30’s so invincible syndrome).

I DO know that if I was on my boat I would have been VERY anxious (mostly about the boat, secondly about staying alive). I had been very anxious sailing my own boat single handed in a F7 (caught out) some time before.

After delivery trip my confidence increased alot.

Does that make me materialistic? Caring more about my own fibre glass than my life or some rich owners’s Kevlar?

I cared more about losing my own cheap boat than losing my own life and losing someone else’s a very expensive boat? (Their tender would have cost more than my coastal cruiser).

I do find it weird to think this (and to post it… I hope people on here are kinder than motoring forums and technical forums!)

The above is as far as I can recall at least. A long time ago.

 

[Mark-1]

A lot of that resonates with me.

I think Dinghy sailors are usually first class sailors and in high demand so I'm not at all surprised you were a very useful contributor. There really is no substitute for youth, as well.

I'm also familiar with crew being way more relaxed about big wind and waves than owners for exactly the reasons you state. The PBO has potential damage and the hassle of repair on his mind before he even begins to think about his own safety. See also charter boats.

 

[ProDave]

I have found a lot of the "comfort zone" stuff is fear of things breaking, possibly expensively or catastrophically. Last week sailing in a gale and well reefed down, I was a lot less nervous now with our new standing rigging this year than with previous unknown age (other than "old") standing rigging. A lot more confident the mast was going to stay standing.

 

[DangerousPirate]

This actually sounds pretty normal to me, from what I’ve experienced.

When I was 18, I joined paratroopers despite being afraid of heights (but my mate went and he was dead set on that role, so we stuck together), but I just jumped. First the zipline, later the tower, then the first real jump. I was afraid every single time, but just worked through it. And by that I mean, I just later realised how foolish that all was.

On another occasion, years later, I have been attacked by wild boars. The fear went away, too. Fight or flight kicked in.. Only later you notice the adrenaline and how you're shaking. Afraid until the second you have to react, then you just act!
It may feel foolish later, but in the moment it is exactly what you need. There are just people who freeze and become paralysed, or they're overthinking and working up a panic. And panic never helped anyone!

If you sail through big stormy conditions like that, and you detach yourself from the fear. You just work the boat, do your best job to keep her on course, stable and away from dangers. If you wouldn't stay calm, you'd make errors. Costly and or dangerous errors.

There are many people, who wouldn't act sovereignly like you did. They would feel overwhelmed, lose their head, annoy the skipper or need to be taken by the hand for every step of the way. You're not one of those people. You pick up the challenge, juggle it around and grow with it. Not only that, but you've pushed your comfort zone, made memories and experiences that will shape you for the rest of your life, and are pleasant to look back at.

I wonder how soon you felt the weight of your command? Did that come only now or when did that happen?

 

[KevinV]

There is a long post about this and I think mine is different.

It was my first boat delivery job as lowly crew. I should have been well out of my comfort zone coming from dinghy sailing to a couple of years of 20 foot LOA estuary sailing. I had blagged my experience and position onto the boat to gain mileage.

F8 gale up Irish Sea in a very expensive boat. Wheel diameter was greater than my height almost! Fore sail only (I applauded myself at not allowing it to back of flog and snap as other crumby crew member did. The skipper was good and only 27 years of age, but asleep whenever I was on watch).

It was pretty horrible. The weather was awful, but at least it was a following sea.

The cavitation as the boat was picked up by the following (or pushing) sea could be felt beneath my feet even though there was a master cabin below me. I found that very interesting in a Kevlar hulled boat. Invigorating too; to feel the boat picked up, feel the thunder, adapt one’s helm… but not too much because she would come back onto course.

I never had a care. I had a life jacket on and was tethered (less safety gear on my person than I would have now). I was diligent inspire of what I am writing and sailed well.

I had life insurance.

Other two crew asleep. (Many a time I wished there had been intercom to cabins.)

Simply… it was not my boat and I was not skipper and I was not bothered by much at all except the boredom and discomfort.

I was doing my best and that seemed adequate. I knew many things could go wrong but strangely I did not care.

I do not know to this day if I had a death wish. I never felt in danger, so I think not. The responsibility was with the sleeping skipper, and well known delivery company. I was doing ok. But if it went pear shaped, all i had to do was float and stay alive until rescue (I was in my 30’s so invincible syndrome).

I DO know that if I was on my boat I would have been VERY anxious (mostly about the boat, secondly about staying alive). I had been very anxious sailing my own boat single handed in a F7 (caught out) some time before.

After delivery trip my confidence increased alot.

Does that make me materialistic? Caring more about my own fibre glass than my life or some rich owners’s Kevlar?

I cared more about losing my own cheap boat than losing my own life and losing someone else’s a very expensive boat? (Their tender would have cost more than my coastal cruiser).

I do find it weird to think this (and to post it… I hope people on here are kinder than motoring forums and technical forums!)

The above is as far as I can recall at least. A long time ago.

I had a similar experience, but downwind with a huge spinnaker, no other sails to hide it behind, at dusk, mid atlantic and being hit by a 30-40kn, 30 minute squall right up our backside - it was terrifying for a moment, then all came into focus and surfing a 37' cruising yacht down the waves that were half the height of the mast is probably the most exciting thing I've done in my life. Not my boat, not my decisions, my only responsibility was to sail the boat to the best of my ability. Not a position I would have chosen to be in, but it's amazing what you can do when there's no other choice.

 

[DangerousPirate]

I had a similar experience, but downwind with a huge spinnaker, no other sails to hide it behind, at dusk, mid atlantic and being hit by a 30-40kn, 30 minute squall right up our backside - it was terrifying for a moment, then all came into focus and surfing a 37' cruising yacht down the waves that were half the height of the mast is probably the most exciting thing I've done in my life. Not my boat, not my decisions, my only responsibility was to sail the boat to the best of my ability. Not a position I would have chosen to be in, but it's amazing what you can do when there's no other choice.

Leaving the comfort zone is one helluva thing. Moments like that make life worth living.

 

[DJE]

As owner and skipper I find that I feel the increased worry and responsibility towards the safety of the crew rather than possible damage to the boat.

 

[Concerto]

The skipper was making a big mistake by allowing the other crew and himself to be asleep at the same time. I know my own abilities and have been critised by armchair sailors for some of my escapades, but considering the conditions there should have been 2 on watch at all times. It increases the safety of the crew and yacht. Ted Heath always said any crew should be able to go without sleep for at least 24 hours otherwise they would never crew for him again.

As I sail singlehanded, I can only endanger myself and my boat. I love heavy weather sailing and regularly sail in conditions that fully crewed boats remain in harbour. One of these days I captured in this video.

 

[DangerousPirate]

The skipper was making a big mistake by allowing the other crew and himself to be asleep at the same time. I know my own abilities and have been critised by armchair sailors for some of my escapades, but considering the conditions there should have been 2 on watch at all times. It increases the safety of the crew and yacht. Ted Heath always said any crew should be able to go without sleep for at least 24 hours otherwise they would never crew for him again.

As I sail singlehanded, I can only endanger myself and my boat. I love heavy weather sailing and regularly sail in conditions that fully crewed boats remain in harbour. One of these days I captured in this video.

That's rough sailing, and a very reliable autohelm! Mine probably would have packed it way before then.

 

[johnalison]

I challenged myself in a big way when I decided to hire the biggest boat on the Broads I could. It was one of the Lady class with a bowsprit and no engine of course. With my wife and son I filled the last berth with a teenage nephew with a droll sense of humour. My previous experience was with small Broads boats and a Firefly, but we bumbled our way around the northern Broads for a week and spent most of the time laughing our heads off. It was all downhill after that as my wife and I pottered around, from Cork to Gdansk.

 

[DangerousPirate]

I challenged myself in a big way when I decided to hire the biggest boat on the Broads I could. It was one of the Lady class with a bowsprit and no engine of course. With my wife and son I filled the last berth with a teenage nephew with a droll sense of humour. My previous experience was with small Broads boats and a Firefly, but we bumbled our way around the northern Broads for a week and spent most of the time laughing our heads off. It was all downhill after that as my wife and I pottered around, from Cork to Gdansk.

No engine? That must ahve been a challenge in port.

 

[johnalison]

No engine? That must ahve been a challenge in port.

There are few ports in the Broads, and mooring to a staithe is straightforward if you know how to sail. I funked at the idea of sailing a Broads boat on the high seas and used our HR34 instead.

 

[scottie]

The skipper was making a big mistake by allowing the other crew and himself to be asleep at the same time. I know my own abilities and have been critised by armchair sailors for some of my escapades, but considering the conditions there should have been 2 on watch at all times. It increases the safety of the crew and yacht. Ted Heath always said any crew should be able to go without sleep for at least 24 hours otherwise they would never crew for him again.

As I sail singlehanded, I can only endanger myself and my boat. I love heavy weather sailing and regularly sail in conditions that fully crewed boats remain in harbour. One of these days I captured in this video.

You seem to disregard anyone that may be involved in responding to a alert as we all have legal? Consequences in ignoring you !

 

[ylop]

The skipper was making a big mistake by allowing the other crew and himself to be asleep at the same time. I know my own abilities and have been critised by armchair sailors for some of my escapades, but considering the conditions there should have been 2 on watch at all times. It increases the safety of the crew and yacht.

As I sail singlehanded, I can only endanger myself and my boat. I love heavy weather sailing and regularly sail in conditions that fully crewed boats remain in harbour.

There seems to be a logical inconsistency between these two statements.

 

[DangerousPirate]

There seems to be a logical inconsistency between these two statements.

I disagree. He is saying "Hey ho, I am sailing alone. I love it" and "The skipper should assign more than one person for the job to make it safer in such conditions".

He can't assign a second person, but he's willing to take the risk.

What else is supposed to be inconsistent, I don't know.

 

[ylop]

He’s criticising a vessel for sailing in rough conditions with only one person on watch whilst saying that he enjoys sailing in rough conditions as a singlehander. I don’t really understand why it would be ok for someone to singlehand but not for a vessel with three aboard to have only one person on watch.

The crewed vessel has the option to summons the rest of the crew on deck at short notice, and using a watch system will have rested crew - fatigue is a major cause of accidents.

 

[Concerto]

These OP quotes show why I made the comment.

"It was my first boat delivery job as lowly crew. I should have been well out of my comfort zone coming from dinghy sailing to a couple of years of 20 foot LOA estuary sailing. I had blagged my experience and position onto the boat to gain mileage."
"The skipper was good and only 27 years of age, but asleep whenever I was on watch."
"Other two crew asleep. (Many a time I wished there had been intercom to cabins.)"
"I was doing my best and that seemed adequate. I knew many things could go wrong but strangely I did not care."
"I do not know to this day if I had a death wish. I never felt in danger, so I think not. The responsibility was with the sleeping skipper, and well known delivery company."

It seems that many of you have missed the point of my comment. The skipper was asleep and left a relatively inexperienced crew to sail in rough weather on his own whilst the other crew member was also asleep. To me that is a dereliction of the skipper's responsibility to his crew. The OP never mentioned using an autopilot. So, if the OP had any problems, how was he supposed to fix/adjust/reef the boat that was vastly more powerful than his own cruiser or wake the rest of the crew for assistance?

 

[SaltyC]

I have the same view as Concerto, as Skipper I am responsible for the boat AND the crew, as such I ask would I be happy with an individual of unknown ability on the helm of a powerful boat in trying conditions? It would be logical to have 2 people on watch at any 1 time in case of problems or need to rouse tge sleeping off watch crew.

As I also singlehand my own boat, I am responsible for the safety of the boat and myself, a judgement call I am happy to make.

However, in line with the op's opening comment re age and invincibility, I remember it well, fortunately I got away with it, perhaps my singlehanding is me not growing up? I am however far more cautious than 40 years ago.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Personally I don't see what the issue is based from the OPs description. OP goes sailing down wind, windy day, genoa only, large, modern boat, single handed on watch, two crew below.

Folks need to get a sense of perspective.

 

[ylop]

It seems that many of you have missed the point of my comment.

It seems so. Perhaps because you focussed on the quantum of people on watch rather than the quality!

The skipper was asleep and left a relatively inexperienced crew to sail in rough weather on his own whilst the other crew member was also asleep. To me that is a dereliction of the skipper's responsibility to his crew.

However the boat did reach its destination unscathed. The OP had exaggerated his experience but felt in control. Your main issue seems to be the bits you don’t know about

The OP never mentioned using an autopilot. So, if the OP had any problems, how was he supposed to fix/adjust/reef the boat that was vastly more powerful than his own cruiser or wake the rest of the crew for assistance?

couples cruise long distances and have solutions to overcome this from shouting, banging on cockpit floor (to people in aft cabin) or sounding the fog horn. I know one couple who have a door bell.

Perhaps the skipper was wrong to simply trust the OPs alleged experience - that I have no issue with, but it’s not what you wrote - you said in esssence shouldn’t be single handed in rough weather, whilst at the same time stating that’s exactly what you do. I’m sure you can see how that comes across as double standards. I wonder how you built the experience which now means you feel happy to single hand? For many it will have been on exactly the sort of passage as the OP - where minute to minute he was singlehanding but someone was only metres away if required, then you discover that you have not required them.