Ostende and red diesel - BEWARE
- Thread starter phatcat1
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Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
I would have thought the answer to that would be pretty obvious:-
Drain & clean out the tank & filters of all traces of red & fill with unmarked white fuel.
They are not concerned with our problems of filling the tanks & they are, presumably, aware that some marinas do actually provide facilities for filling with unmarked fuel. Hence we cannot claim non compliance on that count.
But let's see if they do actually reply & whether they just state a note of compliance & not exactly how one actually attains that compliance
I would have thought the answer to that would be pretty obvious:-
Drain & clean out the tank & filters of all traces of red & fill with unmarked white fuel.
They are not concerned with our problems of filling the tanks & they are, presumably, aware that some marinas do actually provide facilities for filling with unmarked fuel. Hence we cannot claim non compliance on that count.
But let's see if they do actually reply & whether they just state a note of compliance & not exactly how one actually attains that compliance
Boz
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
I emailed an address that SM found - you can see the reply in post 190
I emailed an address that SM found - you can see the reply in post 190
CCJ
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Well done the CA
www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_i
Well done the CA
www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_i
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
http://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_belgium
Page not found
http://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_belgium
Boz
Well-Known Member
kalessin
Well-Known Member
Ambassador's reponse to CA
As you will have seen if you clicked the link from PaulRainbow, yesterday afternoon the CA received a formal reply from the Belgian Ambassador to the UK which you can read in full at http://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_belgium. He expresses concern at the distress caused to British boats especially given that the Netherlands and France show more flexibility.
His response ends: “We understand that France and the Netherlands have been showing some flexibility towards British pleasure crafts navigating with red diesel. This discrepancy in application of the European directives creates confusion amongst yacht owners and sailing clubs. The EU Committee on Excise Duty will therefore address this matter during its September meeting hopefully leading to a common approach accepted by all Member States involved... and no further fines will be levied until that meeting.” [my emphasis]
So this is a reprieve at least until September 18, and the CA will continue to work with HMRC and members of the EU Committee on Excise Duty to obtain a continuing exemption for UK yachts.
As you will have seen if you clicked the link from PaulRainbow, yesterday afternoon the CA received a formal reply from the Belgian Ambassador to the UK which you can read in full at http://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_belgium. He expresses concern at the distress caused to British boats especially given that the Netherlands and France show more flexibility.
His response ends: “We understand that France and the Netherlands have been showing some flexibility towards British pleasure crafts navigating with red diesel. This discrepancy in application of the European directives creates confusion amongst yacht owners and sailing clubs. The EU Committee on Excise Duty will therefore address this matter during its September meeting hopefully leading to a common approach accepted by all Member States involved... and no further fines will be levied until that meeting.” [my emphasis]
So this is a reprieve at least until September 18, and the CA will continue to work with HMRC and members of the EU Committee on Excise Duty to obtain a continuing exemption for UK yachts.
Boz
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
You should also be aware that the CA is recommending 2 years of fuel receipts with 100% duty paid and a copy of the Ambassadors Email ( at the bottom of the link) to be carried....
You should also be aware that the CA is recommending 2 years of fuel receipts with 100% duty paid and a copy of the Ambassadors Email ( at the bottom of the link) to be carried....
kalessin
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
Yes it is, but that is of course a counsel of perfection. The question of how many years' worth of receipts should be carried is only a best guess at what might be convincing. I believe that at least one of those fined had purchased diesel at 60/40 but in that case no-one looked at the receipts anyway.
Broadly, every time you buy diesel, if you think you might ever be going to an EU country, shove the receipt in a folder in the chart table.
The recommendation on the ambassador's email is just in case any zealous officials aren't aware of what has been agreed...
Yes it is, but that is of course a counsel of perfection. The question of how many years' worth of receipts should be carried is only a best guess at what might be convincing. I believe that at least one of those fined had purchased diesel at 60/40 but in that case no-one looked at the receipts anyway.
Broadly, every time you buy diesel, if you think you might ever be going to an EU country, shove the receipt in a folder in the chart table.
The recommendation on the ambassador's email is just in case any zealous officials aren't aware of what has been agreed...
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
Also NO fuel in containers
It had always been my understanding that WHITE could be carried but not red. Surely there's nothing illegal with white? Particularly if you've got a receipt.
Also NO fuel in containers
It had always been my understanding that WHITE could be carried but not red. Surely there's nothing illegal with white? Particularly if you've got a receipt.
Boz
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
What we need now is a volunteer to test the theory - (good luck with that). I sort of have the impression that the Officials, zealous or not, are not particularly interested in receipts or emails....
What we need now is a volunteer to test the theory - (good luck with that). I sort of have the impression that the Officials, zealous or not, are not particularly interested in receipts or emails....
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
I shall be going to Ostend on either the 7,8 or 9Th August ( Weather will dictate date) for the paulusfeesten & stopping until the 17Th Then the Dutch canals for 10 days then return to Ostend on return trip home.
Fine or no fine
I will no doubt, be visited by Belgian customs & will do my best to engage in a reasonable discussion to find out what they want
I will have Shengan forms filled in, log books for 2 years with fuel usage listed & hours against each trip ,as usual, with dates bought matched & logged to the trips. The fuel receipts for the past 4 years are all pinned in date order. The tanks were cleaned 2 years ago & most of the fuel purchased since in Holland or France with only a small amount in the UK (White) from garages.
I have a reserve tank fitted to cope with extra fuel in lieu if cans, but I will take an EMPTY can to see what they say about my getting it filled in Holland
Keeping fingers crossed.
I shall be going to Ostend on either the 7,8 or 9Th August ( Weather will dictate date) for the paulusfeesten & stopping until the 17Th Then the Dutch canals for 10 days then return to Ostend on return trip home.
Fine or no fine
I will no doubt, be visited by Belgian customs & will do my best to engage in a reasonable discussion to find out what they want
I will have Shengan forms filled in, log books for 2 years with fuel usage listed & hours against each trip ,as usual, with dates bought matched & logged to the trips. The fuel receipts for the past 4 years are all pinned in date order. The tanks were cleaned 2 years ago & most of the fuel purchased since in Holland or France with only a small amount in the UK (White) from garages.
I have a reserve tank fitted to cope with extra fuel in lieu if cans, but I will take an EMPTY can to see what they say about my getting it filled in Holland
Keeping fingers crossed.
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
Bon voyage! Looking forward to the reports as you go.
Bon voyage! Looking forward to the reports as you go.
Marmalade
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
if everything in your tanks is white, then paperwork surely unnecessary! They can check you for ever and not find marked fuel. Isn't the paperwork only needed if there's red in the tanks?
if everything in your tanks is white, then paperwork surely unnecessary! They can check you for ever and not find marked fuel. Isn't the paperwork only needed if there's red in the tanks?
Cantata
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
I think that all the advice is addressed to people who either have or used to have red in the tank.
The pity of all this is that all of us using red, even if the UK switched to white tomorrow, will have red staining in the system for years to come unless we go to enormous lengths to clean out the system.
I think that all the advice is addressed to people who either have or used to have red in the tank.
The pity of all this is that all of us using red, even if the UK switched to white tomorrow, will have red staining in the system for years to come unless we go to enormous lengths to clean out the system.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
What i am concerned about is that they might find it strange that a uk flagged boat is complying with their rules. I really want to be as "on the ball" with everything as possible inc test certs for liferaft, flares in date etc etc. All things that have been checked in France so may get checked in Belgium if they just come with the mood that they want to find something wrong for the sake of it.
What i am concerned about is that they might find it strange that a uk flagged boat is complying with their rules. I really want to be as "on the ball" with everything as possible inc test certs for liferaft, flares in date etc etc. All things that have been checked in France so may get checked in Belgium if they just come with the mood that they want to find something wrong for the sake of it.
Elemental
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
Of course, this whole thing could backfire on UK sailors if the agreed 'common approach' is to fine yachts found to be using red....
Of course, this whole thing could backfire on UK sailors if the agreed 'common approach' is to fine yachts found to be using red....
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Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Re: Ambassador's reponse to CA
It could also backfire on Belgium if they decide to go with the French and Dutch approach which is likely as the final ruling will come from the ECJ and adopting the Belgian solution would be tantamount to presuming that it would rule in favour of the Belgian interpretation. I wouldn't put that past them though.
It could also backfire on Belgium if they decide to go with the French and Dutch approach which is likely as the final ruling will come from the ECJ and adopting the Belgian solution would be tantamount to presuming that it would rule in favour of the Belgian interpretation. I wouldn't put that past them though.