Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
That sounds cynical and deliberate. Could we get someone with a Diplomatic passport to go there with a tank full of red? A decent diplomatic incident might keep the Belgian Minister/Apparachik on his/her toes.
Ostende and red diesel - BEWARE
- Thread starter phatcat1
- Start date
That sounds cynical and deliberate. Could we get someone with a Diplomatic passport to go there with a tank full of red? A decent diplomatic incident might keep the Belgian Minister/Apparachik on his/her toes.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Many are calling for first hand experiences.
Well this morning I had a chat with a vessel that was 'fined' €500. The facts are very much as related elsewhere and the 'officials' were so sure of their ground that the paperwork for 'the fine' had already been completed before they boarded!
A friend and a well known, respected yatchsman, he is not a subscriber to these forums but has agreed to share developments as they occur. He has already been in contact with a local MP (another friend) and also a keen sailor, who I understand is taking a personal interest.
Primarily as this is an East Coast issue, so as I am briefed and cleared to share, in the future, I intend to post details solely on this thread and have suggested to management the associated threads on Scuttlebutt are merged with this one.
Many are calling for first hand experiences.
Well this morning I had a chat with a vessel that was 'fined' €500. The facts are very much as related elsewhere and the 'officials' were so sure of their ground that the paperwork for 'the fine' had already been completed before they boarded!
A friend and a well known, respected yatchsman, he is not a subscriber to these forums but has agreed to share developments as they occur. He has already been in contact with a local MP (another friend) and also a keen sailor, who I understand is taking a personal interest.
Primarily as this is an East Coast issue, so as I am briefed and cleared to share, in the future, I intend to post details solely on this thread and have suggested to management the associated threads on Scuttlebutt are merged with this one.
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sailorman
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Thank you
can you keep the CA & RYA in the loop
Many are calling for first hand experiences.
Well this morning I had a chat with a vessel that was 'fined' €500. The facts are very much as related elsewhere and the 'officials' were so sure of their ground that the paperwork for 'the fine' had already been completed before they boarded!
A friend and a well known, respected yatchsman, he is not a subscriber to these forums but has agreed to share developments as they occur. He has already been in contact with a local MP (another friend) and also a keen sailor, who I understand is taking a personal interest.
Primarily as this is an East Coast issue, so as I am briefed and cleared to share, in the future, I intend to post details solely on this thread and have suggested to management the associated threads on Scuttlebutt are merged with this one.
Thank you
can you keep the CA & RYA in the loop
nortada
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Yes but as I do not have a point of contact, initially , these two organisations must make contact with me.
I haven't specially checked but I anticipate that my sources are already well known to and dealing direct with both agencies.
Yes but as I do not have a point of contact, initially , these two organisations must make contact with me.
I haven't specially checked but I anticipate that my sources are already well known to and dealing direct with both agencies.
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sailorman
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Both have websites, i posted a response from the CA after my contact with them
post 425
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?481676-Red-diesel-problems-in-Belgium-again-it-seems
Both have websites, i posted a response from the CA after my contact with them
post 425
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?481676-Red-diesel-problems-in-Belgium-again-it-seems
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Boz
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
+1
It's good that The collective voice is being heard
Although that quote from Belgian Customs is pretty definitive,
"According to the Royal Decree of June 28th 2015, article 54, 2° states clearly that liquid motor fuels present, sold or used to drive an explosion or combustion engine of private pleasure crafts cannot contain any denaturates nor markers, on ilnad waterways or Union waters.
This is obviously ratifying an EU Directive
It would be interesting to know if the original directive had limits or tolerances on what constitutes a 'Trace'. It would also be interesting to here some Dutch views from skippers who had filled up in the UK.. Theoretically this process could be imposed anywhere between Greece and Finland.....
+1
It's good that The collective voice is being heard
Although that quote from Belgian Customs is pretty definitive,
"According to the Royal Decree of June 28th 2015, article 54, 2° states clearly that liquid motor fuels present, sold or used to drive an explosion or combustion engine of private pleasure crafts cannot contain any denaturates nor markers, on ilnad waterways or Union waters.
This is obviously ratifying an EU Directive
It would be interesting to know if the original directive had limits or tolerances on what constitutes a 'Trace'. It would also be interesting to here some Dutch views from skippers who had filled up in the UK.. Theoretically this process could be imposed anywhere between Greece and Finland.....
nortada
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
At present even this forum cannot operate with a single collective thread.
We have two similar threads on red diesel currently running in Scuttlebutt.
The duplication is huge so I have suggested to management that these threads are merged with this one but no response.
Whilst, I will do anything I can to help, as one who spends a significant time in Iberia and the UK and has no intention of re-entering Belgique Waters, for me this not a major cause so I do not wish to spread myself over 3 or more threads.
Rant over!
At present even this forum cannot operate with a single collective thread.
We have two similar threads on red diesel currently running in Scuttlebutt.
The duplication is huge so I have suggested to management that these threads are merged with this one but no response.
Whilst, I will do anything I can to help, as one who spends a significant time in Iberia and the UK and has no intention of re-entering Belgique Waters, for me this not a major cause so I do not wish to spread myself over 3 or more threads.
Rant over!
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
i tried to get the first 2 threads merged 2 weeks ago
At present even this forum cannot operate with a single collective thread.
We have two similar threads on red diesel currently running in Scuttlebutt.
The duplication is huge so I have suggested to management that these threads are merged with this one but no response.
Whilst, I will do anything I can to help, as one who spends a significant time in Iberia and the UK and has no intention of re-entering Belgique Waters, for me this not a major cause so I do not wish to spread myself over 3 or more threads.
Rant over!
i tried to get the first 2 threads merged 2 weeks ago
nortada
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
There now appears to be 3 threads covering this topic and following my request to merge it appears that I too have failed.
Unfortunately sticky threads do not appear in the main menu so the this East Coast thread is not apparent to the casual surfer.
As you appreciate I have a number of contacts who are prepared to share any updates they get. To keep it all in one place, rather than posting in Scuttlebutt, I will only post these updates here.
There now appears to be 3 threads covering this topic and following my request to merge it appears that I too have failed.
Unfortunately sticky threads do not appear in the main menu so the this East Coast thread is not apparent to the casual surfer.
As you appreciate I have a number of contacts who are prepared to share any updates they get. To keep it all in one place, rather than posting in Scuttlebutt, I will only post these updates here.
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Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
That is a Belgian decree. In other words the Belgians deciding how to interpret EU durectives to suit themselves. As said elsewhere, other countries have taken a different view and are prepared to work with the UK.
This shows just why the Union is such a shambles.
That is a Belgian decree. In other words the Belgians deciding how to interpret EU durectives to suit themselves. As said elsewhere, other countries have taken a different view and are prepared to work with the UK.
This shows just why the Union is such a shambles.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
OTOH, I think this needs to be visible on as many platforms as possible. More people do not visit our corner of the Net than do. And whilst it clearly affects East coast sailors, it can also affect anyone on the South coast who maybe planning a trip to Holland.
The more people who know of the problem and avoid Belgium, the greater the chance that commercial damage to the clubs and restaurants will bring pressure to bear on the Belgian customs to adopt a more pragmatic approach.
Even a simple expedient of allowing the purchase a tank of duty paid fuel in Belgium in lieu of fines would avoid the problems and put Oostend back on the cruising calendar.
There now appears to be 3 threads covering this topic and following my request to merge it appears that I too have failed.
....
OTOH, I think this needs to be visible on as many platforms as possible. More people do not visit our corner of the Net than do. And whilst it clearly affects East coast sailors, it can also affect anyone on the South coast who maybe planning a trip to Holland.
The more people who know of the problem and avoid Belgium, the greater the chance that commercial damage to the clubs and restaurants will bring pressure to bear on the Belgian customs to adopt a more pragmatic approach.
Even a simple expedient of allowing the purchase a tank of duty paid fuel in Belgium in lieu of fines would avoid the problems and put Oostend back on the cruising calendar.
Bikesailer
Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
How do the customs establish what fuel is in the tank. Do they dip the tank via the filler cap.
How do the customs establish what fuel is in the tank. Do they dip the tank via the filler cap.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
On one of the 3 threads a forumite is reported to have said that the customs officer tried to dip the tank via the filler but could not due to a pipe restriction so asked the owner to draw off fuel at the fuel line. Presumable one can do this if one has a drain point at the fuel filter. I have one there on my Delphi ( CAV) filter.
On one of the 3 threads a forumite is reported to have said that the customs officer tried to dip the tank via the filler but could not due to a pipe restriction so asked the owner to draw off fuel at the fuel line. Presumable one can do this if one has a drain point at the fuel filter. I have one there on my Delphi ( CAV) filter.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Whilst I understand your position, numerous threads must cause duplication.
I for one will not post on numerous thread on the same topic
Whilst I understand your position, numerous threads must cause duplication.
I for one will not post on numerous thread on the same topic
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Rafiki
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
As the Belgian Customs are clearly targeting British Flagged yachts just set me wondering what the exact legal requirements are showing a flag. If I mistakenly thought that in visiting Belgium I should as a matter of courtesy fly a Belgian Flag, or perhaps think Ostend was in the Netherlands and fly a Dutch Flag -how serious would that be?
As the Belgian Customs are clearly targeting British Flagged yachts just set me wondering what the exact legal requirements are showing a flag. If I mistakenly thought that in visiting Belgium I should as a matter of courtesy fly a Belgian Flag, or perhaps think Ostend was in the Netherlands and fly a Dutch Flag -how serious would that be?
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
You would be hung drawn and quartered by the forum flag police.
I think in truth it is quite serious not to fly the flag of country of registration when visiting a foreign port. Minn should be the one to give definitive information on that.
You would be hung drawn and quartered by the forum flag police.
I think in truth it is quite serious not to fly the flag of country of registration when visiting a foreign port. Minn should be the one to give definitive information on that.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Would a RYS Ensign make then think twice
You would be hung drawn and quartered by the forum flag police.
I think in truth it is quite serious not to fly the flag of country of registration when visiting a foreign port. Minn should be the one to give definitive information on that.
Would a RYS Ensign make then think twice
Mariner69
Well-Known Member
Re: Next best thing to firsthand experience.
Do you mean the River Medina Boat Club or the Royal Navy?
On both counts I doubt it will give cause for thought.
Do you mean the River Medina Boat Club or the Royal Navy?
On both counts I doubt it will give cause for thought.