Orwell to Queenborough timings?

[benw]

Planning a trip up the London river passaging from the Orwell and planning a stopover at Q'boro. Looking at the distance it seems that departing Harwich a couple of hrs before LW and using a full flood tide should do it - crossing the Wallet Spitway with rising half tide. Any views on this approach. Tides will be neaps. Also returning - any views re completing passage in one hit ie using full ebb down Thames and going against flood - is this a viable option given only 5hrs ebb in River Thames.
Thanks.

 

[Pye_End]

Yes, no problem going. Aim for catching the first off the south going tide somewhere off the Naze.

Coming back rather less tide, but is possible with reasonable weather.

When going back leave at least an hour (if not 2) before high water when the foul tide is at its slackest.

 

[tillergirl]

Assuming departure close to Cliff Foot PHM at 6 hrs before HW Sheerness and averaging a speed through the water of 5kts on Neap, expect to be off the Naze at -5.25, the Spitway at -3.31, South Whitaker at -3.09, NE Maplin at -2.30, Maplin Edge at -2.02, SW Barrow at -1.21 and a Medway arrival about 2.5nm off Garrison Point at around HW Sheerness. Obviously you face the start of the ebb up to Queenborough.

This departure time hits the sweet spot for the best passage times in every sector apart from the last one from the SW Barrow to the Medway which is 8 or 9 minutes longer than the best planning assumption. A six hour passage of 36.71nm (yes I know there is the bit on to Queenborough).

Because you hit the sweet spot on so many sectors, starting say an hour earlier only delivers a 10 or 15 minute earlier arrival time (ie a longer journey). Leave at HW Sheerness +4 doesn't give you a faster passage but the plan suggests arrival at the same point in the Medway approach channel around HW Sheerness -1.18 - in other words 6 and three quarters hours but still some helping tide into the Medway.

Coming back - assuming still Neaps - depart the Medway approach channel (2.5nm off Garrison Point - a little way out) at HW Sheerness and the plan suggest the Spitway at +2.51 and Cliff Foot at +5.26. Of course you get 'more' tide going back because you are going with it.

Have a look at the Web Site for the download with last year's depths at the Spitway.

 

[pyrojames]

Worked for me on Saturday and Sunday, although we anchored in Stangate for the night before going on to St Kaths.

We came back from London in one hit last year, but we had the wind (lots) and crew to do it.

 

[Cantata]

........ Of course you get 'more' tide going back because you are going with it..........

I'm very wary of disagreeing with you on this subject, Roger, but surely this ain't right? Without looking things up, I'd guess that LW Walton is getting on for an hour before LW Sheerness, so on the homeward passage to the Orwell you only get 5 hours ebb, as on the upstream trip you get 7 hours flood.
On my trips from the East Swale up in your general direction, we'll leave about HW Sheerness, and generally make it across the Spitway after 5 hours, with the tide starting to turn.

 

[benw]

OK seems that I have it about right. I do have a copy of the Crossing Thames Estuary and really need to sit down and understand how it works - seemed quite alot to interpolate first time I looked at it.
On this trip I will want to hit average 5kn and will use the engine to adjust to timing gateways. I don't think it is worth hanging around on the sand banks!
Are there any other stop offs other than Queenboro?

 

[pyrojames]

Stangate or Sharfleet Cr also in the Medway. Nice quiet anchorage. No moorings and Sharfleet is a bit shallow in part (ahem). Interesting at high tide, because the channel isn't visible as almost everything is covered.

 

[benw]

Thanks Pyrojames.

Looking on my iphone navionics chart (everything on boat) looks like an explosives anchoring area in Stangate Cr. Is this much used or is it best to avoid the anchorage for somewhere further up. Is this creek much used by merchant vessels?

 

[tillergirl]

Dick, you are right. Badly written I'm afraid. Very badly! I didn't mean to imply you got the extra 40 minutes between Sheerness and Walton. The reason the return journey is quicker is that you get 'more' tide in some key places like the West Swin on the ebb than you got on the flood and you are riding that tidal wave.

Ben

Don't worry too much about the interpolation. If you get a mid value, check on the duration of the next sector; if the duration for the values either side are the same or similar, you can just add the duration time and carry on. Can't comment about Stangate, my ECP is on board.

 

[spottydog]

Stangate or Sharfleet Cr also in the Medway. Nice quiet anchorage. No moorings and Sharfleet is a bit shallow in part (ahem). Interesting at high tide, because the channel isn't visible as almost everything is covered.

 

[Cantata]

Dick, you are right. Badly written I'm afraid. Very badly! I didn't mean to imply you got the extra 40 minutes between Sheerness and Walton. The reason the return journey is quicker is that you get 'more' tide in some key places like the West Swin on the ebb than you got on the flood and you are riding that tidal wave..............

OK, but anyway I don't find that works in practice, at least not at the speeds at which I travel! I always run out of tide early on in the Wallet, although to be fair we've had 10 miles cross-tide to get to the SW Barrow from the Swale, rather than much the same distance with the current from Garrison.

 

[Cantata]

Thanks Pyrojames.
Looking on my iphone navionics chart (everything on boat) looks like an explosives anchoring area in Stangate Cr. Is this much used or is it best to avoid the anchorage for somewhere further up. Is this creek much used by merchant vessels?

I have never noticed that 'explosives anchorage' symbol before. Despite the fact that it is still on the latest UKHO chart, I wouldn't worry! In 15 years of visiting, I have never seen any merchant vessel in the creek - there is no reason to; there are several disused wharves to the S, long abandoned, and munitions were once made in the area, but not for many years past.
Stangate Creek is a brilliant peaceful place, full of birdlife. Highly recommended and very much used by the locals.

 

[pyrojames]

Thanks Pyrojames.

Looking on my iphone navionics chart (everything on boat) looks like an explosives anchoring area in Stangate Cr. Is this much used or is it best to avoid the anchorage for somewhere further up. Is this creek much used by merchant vessels?

Not ever taken any notice of it! I either tuck into Sharfleet, or tend to favour the eastern side of Stangate.

 

[Mandarin331]

Not ever taken any notice of it! I either tuck into Sharfleet, or tend to favour the eastern side of Stangate.

Depending on timing and draft we also found a nice quiet anchorage at the far end of stangate (can't recall the name and charts are on board), take the left turn and there's a pool with 2m at LW. Probably not quite the spot for Pyrojames though, we only need 1m.

 

[Malish]

Thanks Pyrojames.

Looking on my iphone navionics chart (everything on boat) looks like an explosives anchoring area in Stangate Cr. Is this much used or is it best to avoid the anchorage for somewhere further up. Is this creek much used by merchant vessels?

I've never seen merchant vessels up Stangate (apart from Thames Barges), likewise nver seen the explosives anchorage used for this purpose.

 

[Pye_End]

The reason the return journey is quicker is that you get 'more' tide in some key places like the West Swin on the ebb than you got on the flood and you are riding that tidal wave.

Interesting. Never looked at this before for this trip.

My experience from Gillingham is the same as Dick's though - I run out of tide in the Wallet, even if leaving ahead of the tide, although I am probably a bit slower than a lot of boats.

 

[Pye_End]

I've never seen merchant vessels up Stangate (apart from Thames Barges), likewise nver seen the explosives anchorage used for this purpose.

Occasionally I have seen a tug just tucked into the entrance, but not further up. I wonder if the explosives barge was the one on the big moorings round the corner next to the main shipping channel. Haven't seen it there this year so maybe it has moved.

If it is that barge it is not anything to be concerned about.

 

[Pye_End]

Depending on timing and draft we also found a nice quiet anchorage at the far end of stangate (can't recall the name and charts are on board), take the left turn and there's a pool with 2m at LW. Probably not quite the spot for Pyrojames though, we only need 1m.

By Slaughterhouse Point I think.

 

[Malish]

Depending on timing and draft we also found a nice quiet anchorage at the far end of stangate (can't recall the name and charts are on board), take the left turn and there's a pool with 2m at LW. Probably not quite the spot for Pyrojames though, we only need 1m.

Bedlams Bottom - I've always wondered who Mr Bedlam was and why he had a creek named after his rear end

 

[tillergirl]

Interesting. Never looked at this before for this trip.

My experience from Gillingham is the same as Dick's though - I run out of tide in the Wallet, even if leaving ahead of the tide, although I am probably a bit slower than a lot of boats.

To be fair to you both, remember that my start waypoint is pretty far out in the Approach Channel so it is at least an hour ahead anyway. I think it is also pretty difficult to keep 5 kts of boat speed all the way.