Orca attack

[ducked]

I have some friends who did the ARC last year. Their bang sticks were just dropped in the water on a piece of string. Just to test one they put it in a washing up bowl of water as they approached the Orca zone. It blew the water all over the cabin. & deafened them
Point is that it was not on a stick
They bought a few on the trip down, so I assume it was Belgium France or UK. May have been an ARC contact

If it was not
on a stick
It was not
By definition
A bang stick
Just a banger
Oi vay
Already

PS By your own account, your friends seem to be the sort of people who should not be given any access to explosives of any kind.

 

[Daydream believer]

Just take the time to read my post along with the post I was answering. Then get smart.

I was not talking to you. Go away

 

[Daydream believer]

..

 

[Graham376]

As I sail in Portuguese waters - where can you buy them please. PM me if necessary.

Not found any in Portugal. For those based on Algarve, I found two shops in Huelva (Spain) selling large ranges of fireworks.

Pirotecnica los Ninos and La Traca. Don't know if they can post.

 

[doug748]

As I sail in Portuguese waters - where can you buy them please. PM me if necessary.

I started this thread ages ago once I realised the serious risk these Orcas were to sailing boats (mainly in Portuguese and Spanish waters)

I find it amazing the interest and posts discussing the trim of a sinking boat instead of what should be the main concern that Orcas damaged the boat sufficient for it to sink and endanger the crews life.

I would be devastated if any boat I owned was damaged and sunk but the last thing that would concern me is the trim of the boat as it sunk!

There is an alternative, available perfectly legally, in the UK, as pointed out in earlier threads (and also mentioned by Father Hackett) I would be wary of international shipping though.

.

 

[Sailfree]

Not found any in Portugal. For those based on Algarve, I found two shops in Huelva (Spain) selling large ranges of fireworks.

Pirotecnica los Ninos and La Traca. Don't know if they can post.

Thanks for that. I will be going to next Heulva on May26 for a week of Ceroc Dancing so will try to buy some.

Wrt the comments that people prepared to use bang sticks should not be allowed near explosives I can only comment that I intend to buy some and if any Orcas try eating my rudder I will not hesitate to use them.

As skipper on board I am responsible for the safety of my crew and to let scaring Orcas take priority over the possible life or death of my crew and the loss of my boat its no contest!

Maybe scaring Orcas ( without any physical harm) is the best solution.

Sorry but human life takes president over animal life in my book. Tree huggers can go down with their boats if they like.

Just re-read recent contributions. I was thinking of bangers that will still go of underwater.

Where can you buy a bang stick as again I would not hesitate to use one if necessary.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thanks for that. I will be going to next Heulva on May26 for a week of Ceroc Dancing so will try to buy some.

Wrt the comments that people prepared to use bang sticks should not be allowed near explosives I can only comment that I intend to buy some and if any Orcas try eating my rudder I will not hesitate to use them.

As skipper on board I am responsible for the safety of my crew and to let scaring Orcas take priority over the possible life or death of my crew and the loss of my boat its no contest!

Maybe scaring Orcas ( without any physical harm) is the best solution.

Sorry but human life takes president over animal life in my book. Tree huggers can go down with their boats if they like.

Just re-read recent contributions. I was thinking of bangers that will still go of underwater.

Where can you buy a bang stick as again I would not hesitate to use one if necessary.

I doubt that you can buy one in Europe maybe South Africa or Australia but if you have a lathe or milling machine you could easily make one. For a "banger" that will go off under water all will if you let them "fizz" before dropping them in the water plus tape a small weight to them to ensure they sink. A little experimentation to get the weight and timing right will be required. What sort of childhood did you have if you don't know such elementary stuff

 

[Graham376]

I doubt that you can buy one in Europe maybe South Africa or Australia but if you have a lathe or milling machine you could easily make one. For a "banger" that will go off under water all will if you let them "fizz" before dropping them in the water plus tape a small weight to them to ensure they sink. A little experimentation to get the weight and timing right will be required. What sort of childhood did you have if you don't know such elementary stuff

Several of my school reports, which I found after my father died, had the same statement from our chemistry teacher Mr Leech (aka Dracula) - apparently only interested in explosive compounds

 

[ducked]

Thanks for that. I will be going to next Heulva on May26 for a week of Ceroc Dancing so will try to buy some.

Wrt the comments that people prepared to use bang sticks should not be allowed near explosives I can only comment that I intend to buy some and if any Orcas try eating my rudder I will not hesitate to use them.

As skipper on board I am responsible for the safety of my crew and to let scaring Orcas take priority over the possible life or death of my crew and the loss of my boat its no contest!

Maybe scaring Orcas ( without any physical harm) is the best solution.

Sorry but human life takes president over animal life in my book. Tree huggers can go down with their boats if they like.

Just re-read recent contributions. I was thinking of bangers that will still go of underwater.

Where can you buy a bang stick as again I would not hesitate to use one if necessary.

You too, are unaccountably confusing bang sticks with bangers, despite repeated and unambiguous explanations of the difference above..

A banger need not be lethal and is probably unlikely to get you into legal difficulty, neither of which applies to a bang stick.

A bang stick will also use controlled ammunition (as in, the things you put inside guns to make them go) which in most jurisdictions cant be legally aquired or possessed without a firearms permit.

And if you think "testing" an unknown explosive device (in the case referred to, a BIG BANGer, NOT a bang stick) by letting one off in a washing-up bowl inside a boat cabin you are also in is a sensible procedure, then I'm afraid you, too sound like the sort of person that shouldn't be given any access to explosives of any kind.

PS It would probably be best not to say "human life takes president". The word "president" has very negative associations lately and its use here tends to undermine your credibility.

 

[Sailfree]

Family of 5 rescued some 90kms from Peniche after Orcas sank their sailboat.

Family took to their life raft.

It's inevitable that someone will die unless these Orcas are trained/deterred from attacking sailboats.

Apparently for a long period Salt Water Crocodiles in Austrailia were frightened of humans when most humans had a gun and were shooting them. Its only after years of being a protected species that they have no hesitation attacking humans.

 

[steve yates]

There is a world of difference between swimming with dolphins and preventing an attack by a predator in order to save a boat and crew from harm. As the first step in defence one would use the opinion quoted by Webby

It has already been pretty much agreed by experts it is not an attack, it is play. And they are marine predators, with very specific diets. They do not, and never have, in the wild, attack and/or eat humans. Which is the image the word “predator “ conveys.
Itis probably relevant that they are very large, very fast, very powerful and extremely clever animals, so beware the law of unintended consequences.
Deterrent is one thing, but if crews start to get into hurting or attacking them it may end up far worse for everyone than expensive repair bills or occasional vessel loss.

 

[steve yates]

My words were..Wouldn't like to test the system...its all well and good to state your points of view, but the Spanish as I see, don't listen to any excuses, and arguing your point could be costly and extremely time consuming...

The law has bugger all to do with justice. I wouldn’t hold out too mich hope for that defence working.

 

[billskip]

The law has bugger all to do with justice. I wouldn’t hold out too mich hope for that defence working.

?? ? what defense ?

 

[steve yates]

Protecting the boat vs lobbing bangers etc at orcas.
Though you would have to be observed mind, no one would admit to it in public would they

 

[billskip]

Protecting the boat vs lobbing bangers etc at orcas.
Though you would have to be observed mind, no one would admit to it in public would they

I was obviously not very clear, I'm not against any form of defence.
The point I'm making is a question of how to explain, or what to do with the possible illegal devices on board when arriving in forign waters or ports?
All these suggestions of do this or that with this or that device that is possible perfectly legal to possess in ones own country, but may be illegal in another,
An example is a shotgun certificate may be legal in UK and you have your shotgun aboard, take it to Spain and you are in trouble.

 

[Graham376]

Protecting the boat vs lobbing bangers etc at orcas.
Though you would have to be observed mind, no one would admit to it in public would they

Any type of explosives, even distress flares, are very strictly controlled under the firearms laws in Portugal. Fireworks (as far as I could find out) are only allowed for commercial display use, that's why we have to nip over the border to purchase. I found when I tested a couple of bangers they produce a lot of smoke even when sunk so easy for someone to spot their use. Even being caught in possession would cause problems and a bang stick would I'm sure lead to very severe penalties under their draconian laws

 

[Sailfree]

It has already been pretty much agreed by experts it is not an attack, it is play. And they are marine predators, with very specific diets. They do not, and never have, in the wild, attack and/or eat humans. Which is the image the word “predator “ conveys.
Itis probably relevant that they are very large, very fast, very powerful and extremely clever animals, so beware the law of unintended consequences.
Deterrent is one thing, but if crews start to get into hurting or attacking them it may end up far worse for everyone than expensive repair bills or occasional vessel loss.

What's more expensive than the loss of your life ?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It has already been pretty much agreed by experts it is not an attack, it is play. And they are marine predators, with very specific diets. They do not, and never have, in the wild, attack and/or eat humans. Which is the image the word “predator “ conveys.
Itis probably relevant that they are very large, very fast, very powerful and extremely clever animals, so beware the law of unintended consequences.
Deterrent is one thing, but if crews start to get into hurting or attacking them it may end up far worse for everyone than expensive repair bills or occasional vessel loss.

How anyone can determine whether it's an attack or play from an animal that doesn't communicate in the same language is purely a matter of opinion and conjecture.
The Orca is a predator and at the top of the marine food chain with no other species able to compete or defend themselves other than seeking refuge on land, even ice flows do not protect seals. So the use of the word predator is perfectly justified and does not imply or convey anything other than they are a species that preys on others. Orcas and people rarely if ever mix in the same environment but when they have in captivity there have been a number of attacks and fatalities so feel free to go swimming in your black wet suit next time you see one.
It was postulated that when the attacks first started and were isolated to a single pod with one large female that they were in response to an incident or interaction with a vessel that left an Orca injured and the attacks were in response to that. Had the pod been destroyed before the behaviour got transmitted to other pods then it's probable that there wouldn't be a problem. Now to resolve the issue it would involve the destruction of three pods and a large number of Orca or for vessels to stop transiting Biscay inside the continental shelf.

 

[steve yates]

What's more expensive than the loss of your life ?

Ironically a funeral is much cheaper than most of the boats involved

 

[Mister E]

If you as the captain of the boat want to protect the person's on board, then why are you taking them into an area with a known and well advertised problem?