Opinions on this 'classic '38', please. :)

[jazzdude]

Yes, shade at the helm is good, I see the photos show a shaded helm under sail, so that is ok. A sailing pal of mine raced a similar boat singlehanded and was happy enough.

"Money pit" is a bit of a cliche. You have to ask yourself how much you like the design and then figure out if it is worth it to you. The costs are likely to be substantial as is the level of hands on buggeration but don't be fooled by people telling you in "needs" this or that, costs can be spread over a longer period.
Other folks opinions on value don't really come into it until you sell, where you have to contemplate bearing a potential loss. If you intend to keep the boat a very long time you may be both coming up for refit together and resale value will be of little account.

It's as well you are thinking about the deck, you will have to be sure the core is sound - the deck itself is more of a known quantity. It does generally look well used which can be a positive and a negative. My instinct is that it a boat that may well sell at a discount on the asking price.


You may have seen this ad, it presents very well, don't know if it is still available:

1978 Noray 38, Goes Netherlands - boats.com

.

Yes I saw that boat and for not a lot more it already deals with the worries about teak decking and the sails and rigging.

If it was closer it would definitely be a consideration.

If I bought a boat like this my plan would be to use it as it is if possible for a 2-3 years and spend only what it needs to be able to use it as a day sailer and for the odd weekend.

If I then decide to keep it longer then I would invest into it and improve it further.

It's getting the immediate costs assessed prior to purchase listed to see if indeed this is not a non starter.

 

[DownWest]

What was noticable on the Swan 431 that I did some stuff on was the size of the rigging, several notches up from a similar length JenBav, so would cost (much) more to replace.
And, the skinny windows in the low coachroof made it very dark down below, along with the vertical companionway, it has been mentioned that they are a bit 'submarine' and you can see why. Everything was built like a brick outhouse, which impressed.
That one would be nice without much of the clutter around the cockpit.

 

[vas]

sorry in one of the pics, it looks like it has a hydraulic windlass, or am I seeing things?

 

[Tamar]

Can I just follow up on my comment on the deck? It looks like the caulking between the planks has come unstuck in certain areas, picture 25. this as you know can cause all sorts of problems if the deck under neath is a laminate with a cork filler, I have experience of this on a small area of deck one of my first boats. Very expensive to fix.
If it wasn't for the decks I would put in an offer in a heartbeat.

 

[Tamar]

The deck looks odd in that close up pick, perhaps it was sanded and varnished?

Yes I noticed that, perhaps to keep water out?

 

[jazzdude]

Yes I noticed that, perhaps to keep water out?

Maybe, the broker told me that he has maintained it well but there is a video of the boat sailing and the deck looks grey.

Can the condition and necessity to replace it be found in a survey, even 'treated' as it is.?

 

[Tamar]

Maybe, the broker told me that he has maintained it well but there is a video of the boat sailing and the deck looks grey.

Can the condition and necessity to replace it be found in a survey, even 'treated' as it is.?

I would hope so, if the deck is shoddy and letting in water it should show up on the survey. Mention it to him before he starts the survey.

 

[differentroads]

It would make a great liveaboard, I think. And subject to what a surveyor says, you might well get a few years sailing without spending very much before knuckling down to a refit. Thats what I did with my similar vintage 34'er.

I sorted out the key things that the survey pointed out, principally new rigging (7 and 8mm, did it myself and replaced the chainplates and rewired the mast while I was at it.) Then had four years sailing and occasional improvements like doubling the battery capacity and replacing the water tanks before knuckling down to a 1 year refit working most weekends plus 6 months nearly full time before getting away to liveaboard cruising.

Oh, and big windows are great for the view from inside, but, hey, my cockpit gives me that. And my dark deep cave of a saloon is significantly cooler than outside, aided by 10mm of insulation on the deckhead. Just as well, cos I couldn't afford air conditioning nor find space for extra solar to run it ?

 

[jazzdude]

It would make a great liveaboard, I think. And subject to what a surveyor says, you might well get a few years sailing without spending very much before knuckling down to a refit. Thats what I did with my similar vintage 34'er.

I sorted out the key things that the survey pointed out, principally new rigging (7 and 8mm, did it myself and replaced the chainplates and rewired the mast while I was at it.) Then had four years sailing and occasional improvements like doubling the battery capacity and replacing the water tanks before knuckling down to a 1 year refit working most weekends plus 6 months nearly full time before getting away to liveaboard cruising.

Oh, and big windows are great for the view from inside, but, hey, my cockpit gives me that. And my dark deep cave of a saloon is significantly cooler than outside, aided by 10mm of insulation on the deckhead. Just as well, cos I couldn't afford air conditioning nor find space for extra solar to run it ?

In the end, do you now feel that it was the right thing to do or do you you now think that you should have just bought something else?

 

[differentroads]

In the end, do you now feel that it was the right thing to do or do you you now think that you should have just bought something else?

I love my boat, I know her inside out and she's given me adventures that I'd dreamed of for 40 years. So I'd never say it wasn't the right thing for me to do. Thinking about it, that sentence would be equally true if I replaced the word 'boat' with 'wife'.

However, I've now met enough cruisers who just bought a boat and got out there sailing to acknowledge that if I had to start again, I'd cut out a lot of the diy years and pounds by buying a more recent boat, or an older one one that someone else had completed the refit in the way I shall do on mine. Eventually. ?

I'd also buy a boat in or near the cruising grounds I intended (assuming that I was living on board.) British winters are harsh to do refit work, making you less productive and increasing boatyard costs, heating costs, etc. The Med weather is much more amenable

 

[pvb]

Compared to say a 90s Awb, of a 34-36ft, is this boat worth looking into or is it likely to be a hard to handle money pit?

Money pit, I think, based on that teak deck alone. An AWB some 15-20 years younger and without a teak deck might be a better proposition.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

looks like a lot of boat for the price so the key is to find our why. The deck looks like its had a coat of teak oil or similar and I would think that's the culprit. It's screwed down so I would be looking at all the plugs/screws and inspecting the headlining very carefully. But if it's something you can afford to replace or are willing to remove and make good then fill your boots.

 

[john_morris_uk]

So at 45k do you think it could it be worth that with those upgrades?

Depends how good you are at woodwork and varnishing is my next question.

If the deck needs replacing (and I was only looking at the pictures on my phone before so couldn't really see the details) and you can do the deck yourself (no mean feat and still quite pricy for the teak!) then for 50k and a lot of work, you'd have a lovely go anywhere boat.

This assumes that all the gear isn't worn out. If you start having to add new winches, deck gear and fittings then it really starts to get expensive. It's priced cheap for a reason...

 

[john_morris_uk]

sorry in one of the pics, it looks like it has a hydraulic windlass, or am I seeing things?

It's what I noticed as well. Not necessarily a bad thing - except the last one I used had the hydraulic pump off a dog clutch at the front of the engine in the most difficult place to get to... so it's put me off them a bit.

 

[pvb]

It's priced cheap for a reason...

Very true.

 

[Blueboatman]

If I may quote the OP : “ -it seems to be in very good condition with a recently overhauled engine and what look like teak decks that aren't shot either. “
I look at the cleanliness or otherwise at the bottom of the panels of woodwork , lockers, cable and hose runs.
The staining leaching from many deck plugs
The paint wear on many prepainted fittings .
The multiplicity of hose types , bits of wiring .
The wonky cove line
The remaining gel coat thickness everywhere which the photos simply can’t show affirmatively
The years and years of use masked by bolt on goodies ...


This IMHO is a boat for a hands-on enthusiast who is thoroughly competent and willing in engineering, diagnostics and woodworking.
With oodles of patience and time and a very very large reserve fund for the unexpected ...
I am curious as to how the OP is going to get a couple of years fun from it . And then sell it on as easily as they are contemplating purchasing it . Beauty yes, but head over heart, really ??

 

[DownWest]

It's what I noticed as well. Not necessarily a bad thing - except the last one I used had the hydraulic pump off a dog clutch at the front of the engine in the most difficult place to get to... so it's put me off them a bit.

There is an electric hydraulic pump pack parked in front of the engine. The sort of thing used for truck lift backs.

 

[jazzdude]

There is an electric hydraulic pump pack parked in front of the engine. The sort of thing used for truck lift backs.

I wondered what that tank was, clearly with high pressure hoses on it.

 

[jazzdude]

looks like a lot of boat for the price so the key is to find our why. The deck looks like its had a coat of teak oil or similar and I would think that's the culprit. It's screwed down so I would be looking at all the plugs/screws and inspecting the headlining very carefully. But if it's something you can afford to replace or are willing to remove and make good then fill your boots.

The boat is over 40 years old, surely that deck is not the original one, otherwise it has lasted miraculously ?

 

[jazzdude]

If I may quote the OP : “ -it seems to be in very good condition with a recently overhauled engine and what look like teak decks that aren't shot either. “
I look at the cleanliness or otherwise at the bottom of the panels of woodwork , lockers, cable and hose runs.
The staining leaching from many deck plugs
The paint wear on many prepainted fittings .
The multiplicity of hose types , bits of wiring .
The wonky cove line
The remaining gel coat thickness everywhere which the photos simply can’t show affirmatively
The years and years of use masked by bolt on goodies ...


This IMHO is a boat for a hands-on enthusiast who is thoroughly competent and willing in engineering, diagnostics and woodworking.
With oodles of patience and time and a very very large reserve fund for the unexpected ...
I am curious as to how the OP is going to get a couple of years fun from it . And then sell it on as easily as they are contemplating purchasing it . Beauty yes, but head over heart, really ??

I agree with everything you have said, I am especially concerned about the deck.

Although I am a hands on type with and have carried out full nut and bolt restorations of classic cars and bikes, sorting the boat out is not a major put off.

The key thing for me is to ascertain that it is usable as it is for 2-3 seasons, perhaps sorting out rigging and sails and if I decide to use it as the liveaboard I hope to have in the future, then spend a bit more money on it.

I'm also looking at mid nineties 34-36 ft AWBs in the mid €30k price range and they also do not seem to need less 'sorting' to suit my purpose.

The teak deck is the big unknown in this scenario for me.